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If we ever get unlimited cheap power we will just use it to dump vastly more waste heat into the atmosphere. Discuss.
by m4r35n357 7y ago
If we ever get unlimited cheap power we will just use it to dump vastly more waste heat into the atmosphere. Discuss.
- redwall_hp 7y agoAny heat we generate on this planet is minuscule compared to what we get from the presence of the giant ball of incandescent plasma we're orbiting. Our sole issue is greenhouse gasses trapping more heat than they should.
- manojlds 7y agoWhen
- FroshKiller 7y agoNah, dogg. We'll generate cheap, unlimited power in space and beam it to Earth with microwaves for distribution, bet.
- jdironman 7y agoThe Sun: Am I a joke to you?
- gerardnll 7y agoThat reminded me of the game ‘deliver us the moon’
- pygy_ 7y agoEven if you just bounce it back to space, that would generate heat on Earth. Whatever we do with that energy will generate entropy. Our economy already produces too much entropy (in the form of pollution and ecosystem destruction, on top of bare heat) for the biosphere to cope with.
- dTal 7y agoI have two questions: 1) Why would you select a frequency that water absorbs? 2) Who gets to be in charge of aiming the orbital death ray?
- FroshKiller 7y ago1) Microwave transmission has been practically demonstrated for decades and is less dangerous than lasers. 2) I mean not for nothing, whoever gets their reactor and satellite in orbit first.
- maxerickson 7y agoWe have a ways to go before it would be much of a concern. Solar heating is on the order of 5000 times our current energy utilization (there's a similar amount of cooling). Which isn't to say it can never be a problem, just that we are a blip right now as far as direct heat added to the Earth's energy budget.
- m4r35n357 7y agoYou think 5000 is a big factor here? You should spend more time around humans!
- Enginerrrd 7y ago>Solar heating is on the order of 5000 times our current energy utilization. Oh, wow, that's it!? We have MUCH greater energy utilization than I thought. That's impressive.
- robocat 7y ago> Solar heating is on the order of 5000 times our current energy utilization From another comment: "Mankind's waste heat (~10^12 W) is utterly miniscule compared to sun's energy delivered to earth (~10^17 W)". 5000 smells bad — imagine that power output concentrated in cites or production areas — that would be severely noticeable.
- maxerickson 7y agoI don't understand what you mean by "smells bad"?
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- Medox 7y agoBut also unlimited cheap power to reduce the heat in the atmosphere, through some kind of worldwide air conditioning. Maybe with unlimited power we can finally control our weather through heating, cooling and redirecting ocean currents and whatnot.
- NeedMoreTea 7y agoYeah, but no. Air conditioning and refrigeration produce localised cooling, but an overall heating effect thanks to inefficiencies. Worldwide air conditioning would dump even more waste heat into the atmosphere. Just as trying to cool the kitchen by leaving the freezer door open warms it, trying to cool the atmosphere with worldwide air conditioning will warm it even more.
- ljcn 7y agoThe gp might have been thinking of more interesting methods of cooling - space sunshades, aerosols, massive creation of artificial snow... (not sure if the latter is a net heat loss)
- nomercy400 7y agoOr you manage to store it somewhere. Thinking extreme here, we can get massive energy out of nuclear fission, what if we could revert it and put massive energy back into elements to do reverse nuclear fission. Or maybe convert lead into gold. And use it to create fuel to power our space trips.
- simonh 7y agoWaste heat is a pretty minor issue. It’s an extremely tiny effect compared to atmospherically captured solar heat.
- adrianN 7y agoFusion might be "unlimited", but it's not cheap. Building reactors is expensive and they have a finite lifetime.
- s_dev 7y agoRenewables don't really add much heat in to the atmosphere. Burning fossil fuels do. Fusion nuclear is a renewable energy source.
- laumars 7y agoBurning fuel isn't the only process of modern society that produces heat as a by-product. Lighting (though we're massively more efficient these days) and circuitry (computers and other electronic gadgets) for example. Then you have people running central heating more frequently as energy costs come down or people building less energy efficient housing because it becomes less important to people. I'm sure there are more examples I've not thought of too. Disclaimer: I also don't agree with the GP's position
- s_dev 7y agoOP* Even all the heat generated by appliances and devices in the world combined is actually negligible in examining global warming. The problem is the greenhouse effect because that heat is a positive reinforncement feedback loop from where we get all energy ulimately -- the sun.
- laumars 7y ago> OP Both are correct in this instance (when replying to you I can't recall if it was the first post however I knew it was your parent / my grandparent post). > Even all the heat generated by appliances and devices in the world combined is actually negligible in examining global warming. I agree. Like I said, I don't agree with the original conjecture however it is still important to note that if one is only discussing waste heat production then the problem isn't just the generation of electricity. However the problems clean energy addresses are obviously more significantly other, far more hazardous, waste products. Hence why they're called "clean" energy.
- umvi 7y agoYep. Unlimited cheap power = unlimited cheap cryptocurrency mining
- m4r35n357 7y agoUnlimited heating where it is cold, unlimited AC where it is hot. We had outdoor AC in the Doha World Champs this year.
- maxerickson 7y agoIt'd be interesting to try to estimate the future energy budget available to cybercoin mining. I sort of expect that at least half of the total has been spent already, and more or less demonstrated that distributed consensus by proof of work is not a great idea, just a neat one.
- swebs 7y agoIf we ever get unlimited cheap power, we would no longer be constrained to Earth.
- new_realist 7y agoThe constraint is that everywhere else in the solar system is a shithole, not the energy to reach the shitholes.
- crimsonalucard 7y agoI know of no way to generate lift in a vacuum using a battery with unlimited power. You still need to eject mass away from you using fuel which is finite.
- m4r35n357 7y agoOuter space is pretty much a nuclear furnace with no gravity, not a very appealing place to go. I haven't heard of an serious solutions to either of those problems.
- hoseja 7y agoGlobal warming isn't caused by dumping heat into the atmosphere. It's caused (very simplified) by changing the planet's properties such that it's thermal equilibrium, the balance between sun's radiation heating it up and radiatively losing heat to space, lies higher. Mankind's waste heat (~10^12 W) is utterly miniscule compared to sun's energy delivered to earth (~10^17 W).
- baking 7y agoThis. Carbon Dioxide in the atmosphere is basically the earth's thermostat. The amount of energy coming from the sun is constant. It must be balanced by the thermal radiation leaving the upper atmosphere. But the more CO2 there is, the higher the elevation of that thermal radiation and the higher the surface temperature.
- earthicus 7y agoI think that is precisely OP's point: on the long term, solar & friends are the only things that matter. If we get unlimited cheap power, we can only ever use it to generate an 'utterly miniscule' fraction of energy compared to what's available from solar because if you want to add a meaningful contribution to the energy content of the planet, you'll simply cook yourself, not from chemical global warming, but from thermodynamic waste heat.
- tyho 7y agoPlausible, but if we have unlimited cheap power we can run a giant heat pump to concentrate the excess heat and beam it into space radiatively
- snarfy 7y agoIt doesn't all have to be destructive. We could build fusion powered fully automated tree planters and plant entire forests. CO2 scrubbers, etc. The problem is when the waste heat can't escape into space due to things like greenhouse gases.
- dTal 7y agoWe could build solar-powered versions of those things right now - but we don't. Where's the money in it?
- Bayart 7y agoIrrelevant compared to the amount dropped by the sun on the daily.