4 ms·

Then those who want to rent out their houses should be treated as hotels, taxed as hotels, regulated as hotels and obey zoning rules as hotels. Because they ar

by tirpen 7y ago

Then those who want to rent out their houses should be treated as hotels, taxed as hotels, regulated as hotels and obey zoning rules as hotels. Because they are in fact, hotels.

em-bee 7y ago
they are not hotels, but serviced apartments. that is something different. i hate hotels. but i love serviced apartments. they have a kitchen, washing machine and everything i need to actually live there even for a short time. things that hotels don't have, or make very inconvenient to use.
- sleepychu 7y ago
  Right, for you it's a great plus to have a single unit hotel but for the people who've just had a few single unit hotels opened outside their door/above their head/across the hall... we're wondering how these hotels managed to avoid the zoning laws!
  - em-bee 7y ago
    it's NOT a hotel! it's a short term apartment rental. i don't want a hotel. zoning laws are what they are, but that doesn't mean they are justified. long term rental, short term rentals, serviced apartments and hotels are all distinct categories. do not lump them together. they all address different needs for different people. zoning laws ought to take that into account. personally i find US zoning laws overly restrictive, but thats my opinion, and others may feel differently. what we should discuss is, what kind of zoning is appropriate, and for what reason. some people may like the mix of short and long term rentals, and some don't. it's a matter of taste. there is no objective standard that fits everyone.
    - matchbok 7y ago
      Short-term rental shares much more (99%) in common with hotels than long-term renting. The benefits you get from a short-term place only exist because the externalities are paid by other renters in the building, the police, the government, etc. It's a sham.
    - sleepychu 7y ago
      > what we should discuss is, what kind of zoning is appropriate, and for what reason. some people may like the mix of short and long term rentals, and some don't. Essentially the people who like short term rentals are the landlords who can extract higher revenue from short term rents and the people who can enjoy the benefits of a residential area by renting them. Maaaybe the local businesses that are tourist driven but I suspect that for the most part tourists decide where to go first and then pick the style of accomodations based on availability and pricing. For everyone else in the residential area You've created a unit which is unavailable for locals, driving up long term rent/house prices. You've created a unit occupied by people who need not concern themselves with the long term consequences of their actions. (I don't want to p* off my neighbor with a loud party because I have to live with them for a long time) You've created a unit where a continuous stream of short term renters may accept more cramped quarters in order to save on cost, the effect being that a 2 bed apartment may effectively continuously house 9 people, creating undue noise and resource consumption, even if they are considerate neighbors. You've created a unit which needs to be cleaned as frequently as daily, creating noise. I appreciate that these are externalities and you like the benefits a serviced apartment gives you but Airbnb has managed to bash these into residential areas and steal the value from those who live there with little recourse but to enforce the existing regulations (which the hosts are often breaching!) or regulate Airbnb out.
      - em-bee 7y ago
        as a traveller i'd of course appreciate if the prices were not to high, and i also prefer to get a full apartment for myself, and not a tiny closet in a 2-bedroom that has been sliced to pieces. i have stayed in both kinds of places. and i agree with you that those issues are real. i'd be totally fine with a limit on occupancy, and price control. some issues could be solved with a license that a landlord can loose if they violate the rules. including excessive noise. so i believe it is possible to manage serviced apartments in a responsible way that do not cause problems for other people in the building.

by tirpen 7y ago

Then those who want to rent out their houses should be treated as hotels, taxed as hotels, regulated as hotels and obey zoning rules as hotels. Because they are in fact, hotels.

em-bee 7y ago

they are not hotels, but serviced apartments. that is something different. i hate hotels. but i love serviced apartments. they have a kitchen, washing machine and everything i need to actually live there even for a short time. things that hotels don't have, or make very inconvenient to use.

sleepychu 7y ago
Right, for you it's a great plus to have a single unit hotel but for the people who've just had a few single unit hotels opened outside their door/above their head/across the hall... we're wondering how these hotels managed to avoid the zoning laws!
- em-bee 7y ago
  it's NOT a hotel! it's a short term apartment rental. i don't want a hotel. zoning laws are what they are, but that doesn't mean they are justified. long term rental, short term rentals, serviced apartments and hotels are all distinct categories. do not lump them together. they all address different needs for different people. zoning laws ought to take that into account. personally i find US zoning laws overly restrictive, but thats my opinion, and others may feel differently. what we should discuss is, what kind of zoning is appropriate, and for what reason. some people may like the mix of short and long term rentals, and some don't. it's a matter of taste. there is no objective standard that fits everyone.
  - matchbok 7y ago
    Short-term rental shares much more (99%) in common with hotels than long-term renting. The benefits you get from a short-term place only exist because the externalities are paid by other renters in the building, the police, the government, etc. It's a sham.
  - sleepychu 7y ago
    > what we should discuss is, what kind of zoning is appropriate, and for what reason. some people may like the mix of short and long term rentals, and some don't. Essentially the people who like short term rentals are the landlords who can extract higher revenue from short term rents and the people who can enjoy the benefits of a residential area by renting them. Maaaybe the local businesses that are tourist driven but I suspect that for the most part tourists decide where to go first and then pick the style of accomodations based on availability and pricing. For everyone else in the residential area You've created a unit which is unavailable for locals, driving up long term rent/house prices. You've created a unit occupied by people who need not concern themselves with the long term consequences of their actions. (I don't want to p* off my neighbor with a loud party because I have to live with them for a long time) You've created a unit where a continuous stream of short term renters may accept more cramped quarters in order to save on cost, the effect being that a 2 bed apartment may effectively continuously house 9 people, creating undue noise and resource consumption, even if they are considerate neighbors. You've created a unit which needs to be cleaned as frequently as daily, creating noise. I appreciate that these are externalities and you like the benefits a serviced apartment gives you but Airbnb has managed to bash these into residential areas and steal the value from those who live there with little recourse but to enforce the existing regulations (which the hosts are often breaching!) or regulate Airbnb out.
    - em-bee 7y ago
      as a traveller i'd of course appreciate if the prices were not to high, and i also prefer to get a full apartment for myself, and not a tiny closet in a 2-bedroom that has been sliced to pieces. i have stayed in both kinds of places. and i agree with you that those issues are real. i'd be totally fine with a limit on occupancy, and price control. some issues could be solved with a license that a landlord can loose if they violate the rules. including excessive noise. so i believe it is possible to manage serviced apartments in a responsible way that do not cause problems for other people in the building.