5 ms·

The worst is that they can have their cake and eat it too. My case: initially deemed fit to serve, did my recruit school and most of my WKs, had only a few day

The worst is that they can have their cake and eat it too. My case: initially deemed fit to serve, did my recruit school and most of my WKs, had only a few days of service left to do. And then; "sorry, you are actually unfit to serve". And now, I get to pay the tax as if I did nothing. Ok, not really; I have a reduction because of the days of service I already did, but it's nowhere near a pro-rata rate. After the sacrifices I had to do to accomodate them, I am rather disgusted.

squiggleblaz 7y ago
Is there any kind of appeal? Do they actually get the money directly (i.e. they declare you unfit = they get a bigger budget)? Do you have any kind of chance to make it up (e.g. you're unfit because your BMI exceeds some value or you can't run up a hundred steps, so you get to spend six months working on it and then they let you do your last few days)? Or the first you learn about it is the big bill end of story? I know the army isn't meant to sound like a walk in the park, but it sounds not just unfair, but genuinely unjust.
- throwaway8464 7y ago
  Admittedly, I'm a bit of a special case: I have a chronic condition since my teenage years, but it was only diagnosed recently. And the decision of the army did appear with the bill. But usually, most people don't try to get in the swiss army, but rather out. The military service is not exactly popular among the young generation, and a lot of people would prefer to do an alternative service (civilian service or civil protection) to avoid the military tax. A trend in politics is to make those alternatives as unattractive as possible (from an economic perspective, or the number of days you have to servce). The army seems to have difficulties to fill their ranks (or so they claim, at least). As far as my experience goes, there aren't picky on the medical part during the recruitment. Trying to cheat the medical experts with all kind of stuff (claiming to do drugs, to be suicidal, ...) is a common way to try to avoid the military service. A reason I'm so bitter about it is the fact that, while my condition _did_ seriously affect me during the recruit school from a physical point of view (long walks and stuff like that, but it was still undiagnosed, and the military medics at the time simply judged that I was a "simulator"), using it as a pretext to have me pay the tax now, when my militaries duties are hardly more than office work, after I struggled so much to actually overcome my disease and complete the hard part, feels... unfair. It's noteworthy that Switzerland was called out by the ECHR (European Court of Human Rights) on the matter, judging it discriminatory[0]. Following that, a system to allow people with disabilities to candidate for the army service has been introduced[1]. I'm currently trying to be reintegrated. However, they still reserve the rights to refuse anyone for any reason. So, I guess I will see if it's real, or just a mock to please the ECHR. [0] https://www.escr-net.org/caselaw/2012/glor-v-switzerland https://www.escr-net.org/caselaw/2012/glor-v-switzerland [1] https://www.estv.admin.ch/estv/de/home/direkte-bundessteuer/wehrpflichtersatzabgabe/fachinformationen/neuer-militaerdienst.html https://www.estv.admin.ch/estv/de/home/direkte-bundessteuer/...
noxer 7y ago
This sounds way worse than it is. You get exactly 50% less to pay if you did 50% of your service + you pay less long because you start to pay when you drop out instead of directly after you turn 18. Paying 18 to 40 is clearly not the same as paying 30 to 40.
- throwaway8464 7y ago
  Sorry, but your number are wrongs. The very _maximum_ biggest reduction you can get is 40%, and, thanks to the recently passed new law, the duration is the very same for everyone.
  - throwaway8464 7y ago
    In hindsight, it was sloppy of me to not precise that I was speaking specifically for a private in the standard service model. For people with higher number of days to serve, it's possible to have more than 40%.

squiggleblaz 7y ago

Is there any kind of appeal? Do they actually get the money directly (i.e. they declare you unfit = they get a bigger budget)? Do you have any kind of chance to make it up (e.g. you're unfit because your BMI exceeds some value or you can't run up a hundred steps, so you get to spend six months working on it and then they let you do your last few days)? Or the first you learn about it is the big bill end of story? I know the army isn't meant to sound like a walk in the park, but it sounds not just unfair, but genuinely unjust.

throwaway8464 7y ago
Admittedly, I'm a bit of a special case: I have a chronic condition since my teenage years, but it was only diagnosed recently. And the decision of the army did appear with the bill. But usually, most people don't try to get in the swiss army, but rather out. The military service is not exactly popular among the young generation, and a lot of people would prefer to do an alternative service (civilian service or civil protection) to avoid the military tax. A trend in politics is to make those alternatives as unattractive as possible (from an economic perspective, or the number of days you have to servce). The army seems to have difficulties to fill their ranks (or so they claim, at least). As far as my experience goes, there aren't picky on the medical part during the recruitment. Trying to cheat the medical experts with all kind of stuff (claiming to do drugs, to be suicidal, ...) is a common way to try to avoid the military service. A reason I'm so bitter about it is the fact that, while my condition _did_ seriously affect me during the recruit school from a physical point of view (long walks and stuff like that, but it was still undiagnosed, and the military medics at the time simply judged that I was a "simulator"), using it as a pretext to have me pay the tax now, when my militaries duties are hardly more than office work, after I struggled so much to actually overcome my disease and complete the hard part, feels... unfair. It's noteworthy that Switzerland was called out by the ECHR (European Court of Human Rights) on the matter, judging it discriminatory[0]. Following that, a system to allow people with disabilities to candidate for the army service has been introduced[1]. I'm currently trying to be reintegrated. However, they still reserve the rights to refuse anyone for any reason. So, I guess I will see if it's real, or just a mock to please the ECHR. [0] https://www.escr-net.org/caselaw/2012/glor-v-switzerland https://www.escr-net.org/caselaw/2012/glor-v-switzerland [1] https://www.estv.admin.ch/estv/de/home/direkte-bundessteuer/wehrpflichtersatzabgabe/fachinformationen/neuer-militaerdienst.html https://www.estv.admin.ch/estv/de/home/direkte-bundessteuer/...

noxer 7y ago

This sounds way worse than it is. You get exactly 50% less to pay if you did 50% of your service + you pay less long because you start to pay when you drop out instead of directly after you turn 18. Paying 18 to 40 is clearly not the same as paying 30 to 40.

throwaway8464 7y ago
Sorry, but your number are wrongs. The very _maximum_ biggest reduction you can get is 40%, and, thanks to the recently passed new law, the duration is the very same for everyone.
- throwaway8464 7y ago
  In hindsight, it was sloppy of me to not precise that I was speaking specifically for a private in the standard service model. For people with higher number of days to serve, it's possible to have more than 40%.