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The article doesn't mention it, but the bunkers here in Switzerland are serious structures. From the WSJ: "A Swiss shelter must withstand an impact of a 12-mega

The article doesn't mention it, but the bunkers here in Switzerland are serious structures. From the WSJ: "A Swiss shelter must withstand an impact of a 12-megaton explosion at a distance of 700 meters (765 yards). ..." [1]. Also, a lot of town/cities have a fully redundant water distribution system. In Zurich, for instance, the water coming out of the 100s of fountains you see around town comes from either of these and they are swapped regularly [2]. [1] https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702304231204576405700994655570 https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702304231204576405... [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGyHJ-xmcuc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGyHJ-xmcuc

arethuza 7y ago
A quick check on Nukemap suggests that a 12MT explosion at ground level produces a crater 210m deep and with a radius of 0.88km at the outer edge so that requirement seems a bit optimistic.... https://nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap/ https://nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap/
- lostlogin 7y ago
  Presumably the surface type matters. Deep soil or clay versus rock must change things?
- wcoenen 7y ago
  Nuclear warheads are not designed to be detonated at ground level. The optimum burst height for maximum damage (presumably not to bunkers, but to other structures) goes up with the bomb yield. For megaton yields that altitude will be several km.
  - arethuza 7y ago
    For soft targets (e.g. cities) an air burst would be used - but for hard targets a ground burst (or even penetration) would be used: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_burst https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_burst Some weapons even allowed for "laydown delivery" where weapons would be on the ground for a bit before detonating: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laydown_delivery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laydown_delivery From what I recall, the really large weapons (10MT-25MT) were mainly intended, at least in the latter stages of the Cold War, to be used against hard targets.
throwaway9d0291 7y ago
> In Zurich, for instance, the water coming out of the 100s of fountains you see around town comes from either of these and they are swapped regularly [2]. There are two systems: - The regular system plugged into every house, business and most fountains around the city. - The emergency system, available at a few special fountains designed specifically for emergencies (e.g. they have a hydrant inside them so that they can be used to fill large containers quickly). As far as I know, the systems are entirely isolated from each other, with different springs, pipes and everything. They can't be swapped.
- marcyb5st 7y ago
  I heard different. That there is a switch that allow to provision water from one or the other.
  - throwaway9d0291 7y ago
    I can't find any evidence supporting that. I find numerous references referring to the supply as if it was distinct from the normal supply and none that indicate it is in any way connected to the main water supply: - https://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/dib/de/index/wasserversorgung/wasserverteilung/Notwasserversorgung.html https://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/dib/de/index/wasserversorgung/w... (mentions a 150km spring-fed pipeline connected to the emergency wells that requires no energy) - https://skyplan.ch/maps/zurich-water/ https://skyplan.ch/maps/zurich-water/ (mentions "Das separate Quellwassernetz" - "the separate spring water network") - https://www.gemeinderat-zuerich.ch/geschaefte/detailansicht-geschaeft?gId=3fe6d50f-8bbc-42f5-969f-fd14523d04fb https://www.gemeinderat-zuerich.ch/geschaefte/detailansicht-... (mentions "Dieses separate Leitungsnetz") - https://www.alt-zueri.ch/turicum/brunnen/notwasserbrunnen.html https://www.alt-zueri.ch/turicum/brunnen/notwasserbrunnen.ht... (mentions "unabhängigen Notwassernetz" - "independent emergency water network") Can you point to any sources that say otherwise?

arethuza 7y ago

A quick check on Nukemap suggests that a 12MT explosion at ground level produces a crater 210m deep and with a radius of 0.88km at the outer edge so that requirement seems a bit optimistic.... https://nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap/ https://nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap/

lostlogin 7y ago
Presumably the surface type matters. Deep soil or clay versus rock must change things?
wcoenen 7y ago
Nuclear warheads are not designed to be detonated at ground level. The optimum burst height for maximum damage (presumably not to bunkers, but to other structures) goes up with the bomb yield. For megaton yields that altitude will be several km.
- arethuza 7y ago
  For soft targets (e.g. cities) an air burst would be used - but for hard targets a ground burst (or even penetration) would be used: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_burst https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_burst Some weapons even allowed for "laydown delivery" where weapons would be on the ground for a bit before detonating: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laydown_delivery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laydown_delivery From what I recall, the really large weapons (10MT-25MT) were mainly intended, at least in the latter stages of the Cold War, to be used against hard targets.

throwaway9d0291 7y ago

> In Zurich, for instance, the water coming out of the 100s of fountains you see around town comes from either of these and they are swapped regularly [2]. There are two systems: - The regular system plugged into every house, business and most fountains around the city. - The emergency system, available at a few special fountains designed specifically for emergencies (e.g. they have a hydrant inside them so that they can be used to fill large containers quickly). As far as I know, the systems are entirely isolated from each other, with different springs, pipes and everything. They can't be swapped.

marcyb5st 7y ago
I heard different. That there is a switch that allow to provision water from one or the other.
- throwaway9d0291 7y ago
  I can't find any evidence supporting that. I find numerous references referring to the supply as if it was distinct from the normal supply and none that indicate it is in any way connected to the main water supply: - https://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/dib/de/index/wasserversorgung/wasserverteilung/Notwasserversorgung.html https://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/dib/de/index/wasserversorgung/w... (mentions a 150km spring-fed pipeline connected to the emergency wells that requires no energy) - https://skyplan.ch/maps/zurich-water/ https://skyplan.ch/maps/zurich-water/ (mentions "Das separate Quellwassernetz" - "the separate spring water network") - https://www.gemeinderat-zuerich.ch/geschaefte/detailansicht-geschaeft?gId=3fe6d50f-8bbc-42f5-969f-fd14523d04fb https://www.gemeinderat-zuerich.ch/geschaefte/detailansicht-... (mentions "Dieses separate Leitungsnetz") - https://www.alt-zueri.ch/turicum/brunnen/notwasserbrunnen.html https://www.alt-zueri.ch/turicum/brunnen/notwasserbrunnen.ht... (mentions "unabhängigen Notwassernetz" - "independent emergency water network") Can you point to any sources that say otherwise?