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There is at least one big airline that denies to accept airliners built in Charleston. Don't remember which. So quality problems are not invented by a single di

There is at least one big airline that denies to accept airliners built in Charleston. Don't remember which. So quality problems are not invented by a single disgruntled employee. There have been news articles before https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/20/business/boeing-dreamliner-production-problems.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/20/business/boeing-dreamline... says that Qatar Airways "stopped" accepting planes fron Charleston. Not sure whether that means indefinitely or until the planes in question are reworked. In normal markets competition would make sure that a company like Boeing gets enough pressure or eventually fails. Now they are too big to fail however they misbehave. And there is little doubt that they do badly. The merger with McDowell Douglas should never have been approved, even less the newest acqusitation of Embraer. Case AT&T showed what to do if competition does no longer work.

xiphias2 7y ago
I would imagine that now that people hate Boeing management for risking their life it's much easier for other airplane startups to raise VC money and be succesful.
- LadyCailin 7y ago
  I’m not sure I trust a startup to make life safety equipment either. Startups by definition have to do whatever they can to cut costs and get as minimal of a minimally viable product as they can, and often, that leads them to releasing shitty versions of the product and patching it later. That’s fine when it’s a mobile game, but when it’s airplanes that carry hundreds of people across the ocean... I’m not sure I have a solution here, other than saying something like “just fix Boeing” but whatever company is making commercial airplanes, I want them backed by governments and large corporations, not VC money.
  - baddox 7y ago
    > but whatever company is making commercial airplanes, I want them backed by governments and large corporations, not VC money. I’m not sure if the incentives or expected results really change all that much. Certainly there are plenty of large wealthy governments and large corporations that don’t have a great track record with safety in large engineering/manufacturing endeavors.
  - xiphias2 7y ago
    The minimum viable product for a passenger plane startup is a newly FAA certified one, which is already a higher quality standard than how Boeing 737 MAX plane was certified. Also I bet that the EU certification won't be easy in the next 10 years. At the same time the number of whistleblowers increasing is great for keeping Boeing in check.
  - riffraff 7y ago
    maybe we don't need someone who never built a plane, as much as allow some of those that already do to scale up? Bombardier, COMAC/UAC, Mitsubishi, or some of those that make very small planes like Textron etc. The problem seems to me that aircraft companies are treated as national assets, and no country wants to allow, and obviously not encourage, challengers to their champion.
- gpderetta 7y ago
  Move fast and break things. What could possibly go wrong.
- Gravityloss 7y ago
  Yes, there are lots of short haul small electric airliner startups.
koonsolo 7y ago
I heard the same thing about Charleston from a European airliner that is buying boeings. The project managers wished their airplane wouldn't be assembled there, because that causes a whole bunch of extra problems. There were plenty of rumours going around of what was happening at that plant. The quality difference was definitely there, and I'm surprised not more airlines requested that. Maybe they did bit it was behind closed doors.
- bb101 7y ago
  It would appear QANTAS doesn't have any ex-Charleston 787s either. Couldn't say whether it's intentional.
- senderista 7y ago
  You might not be aware of it, but Boeing moved production to Charleston to break the unions here in WA state. Just like they moved corporate HQ to Illinois to dodge taxes. These myopic greedy decisions are finally backfiring on them, and they richly deserve it.
Rapzid 7y ago
The Air Force halted deliveries of planes from Boeing due to parts and debris found in closed compartments: https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/u-s-air-force-again-halts-delivery-of-boeings-tanker-over-debris/ https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/u-s-a...
piva00 7y ago
Al Jazeera has a long report on YouTube [0] covering the allegations around Charleston, I know that they can be biased against the US but this report is quite eye opening. Even more given the interview with a VP (or director, can't remember exactly the position) being cut short by the PR person involved, the reports from workers inside the factory stating they wouldn't fly a plane built there, etc. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvkEpstd9os https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvkEpstd9os
- LegitShady 7y ago
  All Jazeera is garbage. If it's legitimate find a real source for it. I don't need the government of Qatar's propaganda and you shouldn't trust some of it because it co firms your biases. Treat bar actors as bad actors even if what they're saying this moment is something that interests you.
  - piva00 7y ago
    Al Jazeera is in general completely biased against Israel and YES, I MENTIONED that I have issues with a lot of their reporting. At the same time watch the report and get your own conclusions before shooting it down based on YOUR biases and prejudices, that reporting is solid, it has video evidence from an employee walking inside the Charleston factory and chatting with co-workers regarding the safety of the planes and the assembly line. So please, be more sensible about your sourcing, this is solid even though biased, just take it with a grain of salt and critical thinking about what parts you should consider and what to disconsider... It's a real source. Also: be more civil, I expect better from Hacker News, your comment read like something out of Reddit.
    - londons_explore 7y ago
      One ends up with the most rounded view of the world by reviewing media with many different slants and biases and assuming the truth probably lies somewhere between all the biased news stories.
      - 7y ago
bb101 7y ago
It's possible to find out whether a 787 was made in Everett or Charleston by checking the production site and remarks on planespotters.net e.g. https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/Boeing/787/G-ZBJM-British-Airways/a1WNU159 https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/Boeing/787/G-ZBJM-Bri... vs. https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/Boeing/787/9V-SCF-Singapore-Airlines/Je8Qc15d https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/Boeing/787/9V-SCF-Sin...

xiphias2 7y ago

I would imagine that now that people hate Boeing management for risking their life it's much easier for other airplane startups to raise VC money and be succesful.

LadyCailin 7y ago
I’m not sure I trust a startup to make life safety equipment either. Startups by definition have to do whatever they can to cut costs and get as minimal of a minimally viable product as they can, and often, that leads them to releasing shitty versions of the product and patching it later. That’s fine when it’s a mobile game, but when it’s airplanes that carry hundreds of people across the ocean... I’m not sure I have a solution here, other than saying something like “just fix Boeing” but whatever company is making commercial airplanes, I want them backed by governments and large corporations, not VC money.
- baddox 7y ago
  > but whatever company is making commercial airplanes, I want them backed by governments and large corporations, not VC money. I’m not sure if the incentives or expected results really change all that much. Certainly there are plenty of large wealthy governments and large corporations that don’t have a great track record with safety in large engineering/manufacturing endeavors.
- xiphias2 7y ago
  The minimum viable product for a passenger plane startup is a newly FAA certified one, which is already a higher quality standard than how Boeing 737 MAX plane was certified. Also I bet that the EU certification won't be easy in the next 10 years. At the same time the number of whistleblowers increasing is great for keeping Boeing in check.
- riffraff 7y ago
  maybe we don't need someone who never built a plane, as much as allow some of those that already do to scale up? Bombardier, COMAC/UAC, Mitsubishi, or some of those that make very small planes like Textron etc. The problem seems to me that aircraft companies are treated as national assets, and no country wants to allow, and obviously not encourage, challengers to their champion.
gpderetta 7y ago
Move fast and break things. What could possibly go wrong.
Gravityloss 7y ago
Yes, there are lots of short haul small electric airliner startups.

koonsolo 7y ago

I heard the same thing about Charleston from a European airliner that is buying boeings. The project managers wished their airplane wouldn't be assembled there, because that causes a whole bunch of extra problems. There were plenty of rumours going around of what was happening at that plant. The quality difference was definitely there, and I'm surprised not more airlines requested that. Maybe they did bit it was behind closed doors.

bb101 7y ago
It would appear QANTAS doesn't have any ex-Charleston 787s either. Couldn't say whether it's intentional.
senderista 7y ago
You might not be aware of it, but Boeing moved production to Charleston to break the unions here in WA state. Just like they moved corporate HQ to Illinois to dodge taxes. These myopic greedy decisions are finally backfiring on them, and they richly deserve it.

Rapzid 7y ago

The Air Force halted deliveries of planes from Boeing due to parts and debris found in closed compartments: https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/u-s-air-force-again-halts-delivery-of-boeings-tanker-over-debris/ https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/u-s-a...

piva00 7y ago

Al Jazeera has a long report on YouTube [0] covering the allegations around Charleston, I know that they can be biased against the US but this report is quite eye opening. Even more given the interview with a VP (or director, can't remember exactly the position) being cut short by the PR person involved, the reports from workers inside the factory stating they wouldn't fly a plane built there, etc. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvkEpstd9os https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvkEpstd9os

LegitShady 7y ago
All Jazeera is garbage. If it's legitimate find a real source for it. I don't need the government of Qatar's propaganda and you shouldn't trust some of it because it co firms your biases. Treat bar actors as bad actors even if what they're saying this moment is something that interests you.
- piva00 7y ago
  Al Jazeera is in general completely biased against Israel and YES, I MENTIONED that I have issues with a lot of their reporting. At the same time watch the report and get your own conclusions before shooting it down based on YOUR biases and prejudices, that reporting is solid, it has video evidence from an employee walking inside the Charleston factory and chatting with co-workers regarding the safety of the planes and the assembly line. So please, be more sensible about your sourcing, this is solid even though biased, just take it with a grain of salt and critical thinking about what parts you should consider and what to disconsider... It's a real source. Also: be more civil, I expect better from Hacker News, your comment read like something out of Reddit.
  - londons_explore 7y ago
    One ends up with the most rounded view of the world by reviewing media with many different slants and biases and assuming the truth probably lies somewhere between all the biased news stories.
    - 7y ago

bb101 7y ago

It's possible to find out whether a 787 was made in Everett or Charleston by checking the production site and remarks on planespotters.net e.g. https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/Boeing/787/G-ZBJM-British-Airways/a1WNU159 https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/Boeing/787/G-ZBJM-Bri... vs. https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/Boeing/787/9V-SCF-Singapore-Airlines/Je8Qc15d https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/Boeing/787/9V-SCF-Sin...