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I really hope Starlink starts a boom in low orbit, low ping, internet providers... Because that's the only way we're going to see any competition emerge in wire

I really hope Starlink starts a boom in low orbit, low ping, internet providers... Because that's the only way we're going to see any competition emerge in wireless telecommunications. This merger is unlikely to do anyone good, IMHO, and is very likely going to make prices rise in a few years once the FTC isn't watching them. Look at the very expected level of bullshit AT&T has done with Dish Network's pricing... If the government wanted competition they'd figure out a way to make starting a new wireless carrier cheap by providing network, power, and physical locations for startups. Reducing the barrier of entry enables more competition; consolidating spectrum into even fewer hands, more wealthy hands, does not.

Aloha 7y ago
Its not hard to get any of those things - heck, for about 150k you can build a site greenfield with nothing there - but consider that Crown Castle, American Tower and a couple other much smaller ones, own 95% of tower sites out there - its not as if T-Mobile is renting from Verizon, most of the big carriers dont own their own sites anymore, and have not owned them for decades. The real thing we're short of is spectrum, not cell sites. I'm skeptical that satellite will fix any of this, they have the same spectrum shortage issues too, with infrastructure that costs gobs more.
kunai 7y ago
This is a perfect example of how Silicon Valley mentality and technocratic solutions often overcomplicate, to a ridiculous degree, the mostly solved challenge of how to get obtainable and affordable high-speed internet in the United States. It's called municipal broadband.[1] Not everything has to be disrupted the way that SF startup cats want to. There is legitimately no reason you couldn't de-privatize spectrum and return control to local stakeholders in the same manner. [1]: https://www.thedailybeast.com/chattanooga-has-its-own-broadbandwhy-doesnt-every-city https://www.thedailybeast.com/chattanooga-has-its-own-broadb...
- rhino369 7y ago
  My municipality cannot even deliver water without making our kids mentally disabled from lead poisoning. Not sure I want them with a monopoly on telecoms too.
  - kunai 7y ago
    The average American "small-government" ruling class mentality chronically starves public goods and the commons from widely available resources, and then points to the failure of said services and goods as a reason why government cannot work. Eliminate this vicious circle and you see massive benefits; Chattanooga's municipal ISP has been extremely successful and popular. Also, municipal broadband or publicly owned broadband would not, on its own, confer a monopoly. There are numerous examples of industries and market sectors where a public option coexists with market options. This is commonly seen as the most likely solution to the healthcare crisis in the United States today.
    - chimeracoder 7y ago
      > The average American "small-government" ruling class mentality chronically starves public goods and the commons from widely available resources, and then points to the failure of said services and goods as a reason why government cannot work. Eliminate this vicious circle and you see massive benefits; Chattanooga's municipal ISP has been extremely successful and popular. You can't just use this as a blanket defense. There are plenty of inept and corrupt local governments that are well-funded as well. > There are numerous examples of industries and market sectors where a public option coexists with market options It's not rightfully a "public option" if one of those is funded by taxpayer money and is capable of operating at a loss, whereas the private ones have to sustain themselves.
    - rayiner 7y ago
      > chronically starves public goods and the commons from widely available resources, and then points to the failure of said services and goods as a reason why government cannot work This is the lie that people trot out to explain the myriad failures of American government. Our schools suck because they’re “underfunded.” Oh, actually, they’re among the best funded: https://images.app.goo.gl/r4QwEWefuP34DZSj8 https://images.app.goo.gl/r4QwEWefuP34DZSj8. Our public transit sucks because it’s “underfunded.” Oh, the New York Subway receives far more public funding than say London’s tube: https://nypost.com/2018/11/06/the-cure-for-new-yorks-ailing-transit-system https://nypost.com/2018/11/06/the-cure-for-new-yorks-ailing-.... If California could build HSR for what it costs France, half the line would already be done for the $6 billion already spent. There isn’t a failure of government that can’t be explained away by lying about its funding levels.
- MidnightRamen 7y ago
  I used to be a proponent of municipal broadband, and I still am, but as a person now living on the outer edge of a minor municipality, and looking to move further from municipal jurisdiction, I personally find offerings like Starlink a solution to a problem municipal broadband can't solve. At some point there isn't a city that provides utilities to an otherwise inhabitable location, but with existing well water and septic technology combined with emerging renewable energy options, a low-latency high-bandwidth internet option is the last piece of the puzzle to allow a rural technologist to live the life they want.
rayiner 7y ago
Starlink isn’t designed for mobile, or do you mean as backhaul?
jtuente 7y ago
AT&T owns DirecTV not Dish. edit: I've always avoided AT&T because they're always the highest priced offering even after bonuses.

Aloha 7y ago

Its not hard to get any of those things - heck, for about 150k you can build a site greenfield with nothing there - but consider that Crown Castle, American Tower and a couple other much smaller ones, own 95% of tower sites out there - its not as if T-Mobile is renting from Verizon, most of the big carriers dont own their own sites anymore, and have not owned them for decades. The real thing we're short of is spectrum, not cell sites. I'm skeptical that satellite will fix any of this, they have the same spectrum shortage issues too, with infrastructure that costs gobs more.

kunai 7y ago

This is a perfect example of how Silicon Valley mentality and technocratic solutions often overcomplicate, to a ridiculous degree, the mostly solved challenge of how to get obtainable and affordable high-speed internet in the United States. It's called municipal broadband.[1] Not everything has to be disrupted the way that SF startup cats want to. There is legitimately no reason you couldn't de-privatize spectrum and return control to local stakeholders in the same manner. [1]: https://www.thedailybeast.com/chattanooga-has-its-own-broadbandwhy-doesnt-every-city https://www.thedailybeast.com/chattanooga-has-its-own-broadb...

rhino369 7y ago
My municipality cannot even deliver water without making our kids mentally disabled from lead poisoning. Not sure I want them with a monopoly on telecoms too.
- kunai 7y ago
  The average American "small-government" ruling class mentality chronically starves public goods and the commons from widely available resources, and then points to the failure of said services and goods as a reason why government cannot work. Eliminate this vicious circle and you see massive benefits; Chattanooga's municipal ISP has been extremely successful and popular. Also, municipal broadband or publicly owned broadband would not, on its own, confer a monopoly. There are numerous examples of industries and market sectors where a public option coexists with market options. This is commonly seen as the most likely solution to the healthcare crisis in the United States today.
  - chimeracoder 7y ago
    > The average American "small-government" ruling class mentality chronically starves public goods and the commons from widely available resources, and then points to the failure of said services and goods as a reason why government cannot work. Eliminate this vicious circle and you see massive benefits; Chattanooga's municipal ISP has been extremely successful and popular. You can't just use this as a blanket defense. There are plenty of inept and corrupt local governments that are well-funded as well. > There are numerous examples of industries and market sectors where a public option coexists with market options It's not rightfully a "public option" if one of those is funded by taxpayer money and is capable of operating at a loss, whereas the private ones have to sustain themselves.
  - rayiner 7y ago
    > chronically starves public goods and the commons from widely available resources, and then points to the failure of said services and goods as a reason why government cannot work This is the lie that people trot out to explain the myriad failures of American government. Our schools suck because they’re “underfunded.” Oh, actually, they’re among the best funded: https://images.app.goo.gl/r4QwEWefuP34DZSj8 https://images.app.goo.gl/r4QwEWefuP34DZSj8. Our public transit sucks because it’s “underfunded.” Oh, the New York Subway receives far more public funding than say London’s tube: https://nypost.com/2018/11/06/the-cure-for-new-yorks-ailing-transit-system https://nypost.com/2018/11/06/the-cure-for-new-yorks-ailing-.... If California could build HSR for what it costs France, half the line would already be done for the $6 billion already spent. There isn’t a failure of government that can’t be explained away by lying about its funding levels.
MidnightRamen 7y ago
I used to be a proponent of municipal broadband, and I still am, but as a person now living on the outer edge of a minor municipality, and looking to move further from municipal jurisdiction, I personally find offerings like Starlink a solution to a problem municipal broadband can't solve. At some point there isn't a city that provides utilities to an otherwise inhabitable location, but with existing well water and septic technology combined with emerging renewable energy options, a low-latency high-bandwidth internet option is the last piece of the puzzle to allow a rural technologist to live the life they want.

rayiner 7y ago

Starlink isn’t designed for mobile, or do you mean as backhaul?

jtuente 7y ago

AT&T owns DirecTV not Dish. edit: I've always avoided AT&T because they're always the highest priced offering even after bonuses.