6 ms·

The Swiss system is soooo interesting in many respects. Most citizens are army reserve and regularly go for training. Many own a war weapon at home (that is st

by Iv 7y ago

The Swiss system is soooo interesting in many respects. Most citizens are army reserve and regularly go for training. Many own a war weapon at home (that is strictly forbidden to take out without orders) They also have underground air bases that allow plane to take off from national roads and that are designed to resist nuclear bombings: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=296&v=vEOLonBfaD8&t=5m https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=296&v=vEOLonBfaD... The main idea behind Switzerland's defense is that it is doable to conquer it, but it is very costly for very little gains. It is said that banks vaults of gold are mounted on trains that are designed, in case of alert, to run into underground tunnels that collapse behind them. Taking months to recover. This is really an interesting system probably tied tightly with their democratic system.

throwawaywrench 7y ago
>Many own a war weapon at home Although its worth noting that since 2007 the vast majority aren't allowed to keep ammunition for their weapons at home. https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/soldiers-can-keep-guns-at-home-but-not-ammo/970614 https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/soldiers-can-keep-guns-at-home-...
- masonic 7y ago
  aren't allowed to keep ammunition for their weapons at home They aren't issued take-home ammunition by the army, but they can buy for their own use.
- noxer 7y ago
  Not true. You are not allowed to take military (free) ammo home. You can however legally buy amo if you are 18 years old and legally own the compatible firearm to the ammo you buy.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
bhaak 7y ago
> Many own a war weapon at home (that is strictly forbidden to take out without orders) That's not entirely true. You can take your own military weapon and use it in your free time on a shooting range or event. You don't even need a special permission to do so.
- bayesian_horse 7y ago
  And those weapons somewhat regularly feature in suicides and "family tragedies".
  - steve1977 7y ago
    Very rarely actually.
    - kome 7y ago
      well, not so easy. it used to be the case. but now you can't keep ammunition for no reason.
      - Hitton 7y ago
        You can't keep army issued ammunition. You can still buy your own ammo.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - bayesian_horse 7y ago
      It's relatively easy to find such incidences online. It's also easy to forget that Switzerland is quite a small country and underestimate the relative frequency.
  - kenneth 7y ago
    No they don't. We Swiss are a little more responsible with our guns than Americans.
steve1977 7y ago
The Swiss army is mostly based on myths. Yes, the army reserve does undergo regular training, but most of that is a joke and they would be nowhere near ready for actual attacks. I mean, even our air force only operates only during office hours. We do have some geographic advantages though (the Alps).
- seymore_12 7y ago
  It is mandatory (for men) army service. If you are found as "unfit for army" during admission, you are obliged to pay tax that amounts to min 600 chf p.a (if the young person has no fixed income) or 3% of his salary until he reaches 40y old. Essentially, you have minor health condition and you pay for this for the next 20 years.....This is one of the most unfair tax I have seen. Based on recent experience I would say army commissions are quick to pronounce someone unfit, easy money...
  - throwaway8464 7y ago
    The worst is that they can have their cake and eat it too. My case: initially deemed fit to serve, did my recruit school and most of my WKs, had only a few days of service left to do. And then; "sorry, you are actually unfit to serve". And now, I get to pay the tax as if I did nothing. Ok, not really; I have a reduction because of the days of service I already did, but it's nowhere near a pro-rata rate. After the sacrifices I had to do to accomodate them, I am rather disgusted.
    - squiggleblaz 7y ago
      Is there any kind of appeal? Do they actually get the money directly (i.e. they declare you unfit = they get a bigger budget)? Do you have any kind of chance to make it up (e.g. you're unfit because your BMI exceeds some value or you can't run up a hundred steps, so you get to spend six months working on it and then they let you do your last few days)? Or the first you learn about it is the big bill end of story? I know the army isn't meant to sound like a walk in the park, but it sounds not just unfair, but genuinely unjust.
ojii 7y ago
> Most citizens are army reserve and regularly go for training. FTFY: Most male citizens are forced to serve in the army and are forced to regularly go for training, or pay a hefty fine each year.
- vwuon 7y ago
  Uh? And what's the difference between what you said and what he said? I mean it's expected that, if they refuse, they'd have to pay a fine. Otherwise nobody would go
  - citizenkeen 7y ago
    Women can be citizens in Switzerland, too.
    - vwuon 7y ago
      It's an army we are talking about here; even if Switzerland is not expected to ever face a serious threat, let's be serious.
      - TomMarius 7y ago
        Izrael doesn't seem to have any problems with women in army
      - squiggleblaz 7y ago
        Sure okay, let's be serious. The fittest and strongest Swiss woman is fitter and stronger than the least fit and weakest Swiss man. How much overlap does there need to be before it's a serious concern? Hopefully diet and health today are much better than in the past - probably there's a huge overlap between the tail of women who are not in top decile today, and men who were fit enough to join a century ago. To the extent that there's not, since woman ore exclude, there probably could be with a small amount of training. If a person of a certain strength a century ago was capable of serving their country, why isn't an equivalently strong person today capable? Moreover, there's many duties in the army that don't directly require top decile strength. Naturally, some of these will need to be done by people who are recovering (since, having recovered, perhaps they will be top decile again). But the amount of technical skill in modern warfare is considerable. A woman could control a drone strike fair easier than a man in recovery. Aside from snide comments, do you have any reason to think half an army is better than a whole one?

by Iv 7y ago

throwawaywrench 7y ago

>Many own a war weapon at home Although its worth noting that since 2007 the vast majority aren't allowed to keep ammunition for their weapons at home. https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/soldiers-can-keep-guns-at-home-but-not-ammo/970614 https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/soldiers-can-keep-guns-at-home-...

masonic 7y ago
aren't allowed to keep ammunition for their weapons at home They aren't issued take-home ammunition by the army, but they can buy for their own use.
noxer 7y ago
Not true. You are not allowed to take military (free) ammo home. You can however legally buy amo if you are 18 years old and legally own the compatible firearm to the ammo you buy.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

bhaak 7y ago

> Many own a war weapon at home (that is strictly forbidden to take out without orders) That's not entirely true. You can take your own military weapon and use it in your free time on a shooting range or event. You don't even need a special permission to do so.

bayesian_horse 7y ago
And those weapons somewhat regularly feature in suicides and "family tragedies".
- steve1977 7y ago
  Very rarely actually.
  - kome 7y ago
    well, not so easy. it used to be the case. but now you can't keep ammunition for no reason.
    - Hitton 7y ago
      You can't keep army issued ammunition. You can still buy your own ammo.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - bayesian_horse 7y ago
    It's relatively easy to find such incidences online. It's also easy to forget that Switzerland is quite a small country and underestimate the relative frequency.
- kenneth 7y ago
  No they don't. We Swiss are a little more responsible with our guns than Americans.

steve1977 7y ago

The Swiss army is mostly based on myths. Yes, the army reserve does undergo regular training, but most of that is a joke and they would be nowhere near ready for actual attacks. I mean, even our air force only operates only during office hours. We do have some geographic advantages though (the Alps).

seymore_12 7y ago
It is mandatory (for men) army service. If you are found as "unfit for army" during admission, you are obliged to pay tax that amounts to min 600 chf p.a (if the young person has no fixed income) or 3% of his salary until he reaches 40y old. Essentially, you have minor health condition and you pay for this for the next 20 years.....This is one of the most unfair tax I have seen. Based on recent experience I would say army commissions are quick to pronounce someone unfit, easy money...
- throwaway8464 7y ago
  The worst is that they can have their cake and eat it too. My case: initially deemed fit to serve, did my recruit school and most of my WKs, had only a few days of service left to do. And then; "sorry, you are actually unfit to serve". And now, I get to pay the tax as if I did nothing. Ok, not really; I have a reduction because of the days of service I already did, but it's nowhere near a pro-rata rate. After the sacrifices I had to do to accomodate them, I am rather disgusted.
  - squiggleblaz 7y ago
    Is there any kind of appeal? Do they actually get the money directly (i.e. they declare you unfit = they get a bigger budget)? Do you have any kind of chance to make it up (e.g. you're unfit because your BMI exceeds some value or you can't run up a hundred steps, so you get to spend six months working on it and then they let you do your last few days)? Or the first you learn about it is the big bill end of story? I know the army isn't meant to sound like a walk in the park, but it sounds not just unfair, but genuinely unjust.

ojii 7y ago

> Most citizens are army reserve and regularly go for training. FTFY: Most male citizens are forced to serve in the army and are forced to regularly go for training, or pay a hefty fine each year.

vwuon 7y ago
Uh? And what's the difference between what you said and what he said? I mean it's expected that, if they refuse, they'd have to pay a fine. Otherwise nobody would go
- citizenkeen 7y ago
  Women can be citizens in Switzerland, too.
  - vwuon 7y ago
    It's an army we are talking about here; even if Switzerland is not expected to ever face a serious threat, let's be serious.
    - TomMarius 7y ago
      Izrael doesn't seem to have any problems with women in army
    - squiggleblaz 7y ago
      Sure okay, let's be serious. The fittest and strongest Swiss woman is fitter and stronger than the least fit and weakest Swiss man. How much overlap does there need to be before it's a serious concern? Hopefully diet and health today are much better than in the past - probably there's a huge overlap between the tail of women who are not in top decile today, and men who were fit enough to join a century ago. To the extent that there's not, since woman ore exclude, there probably could be with a small amount of training. If a person of a certain strength a century ago was capable of serving their country, why isn't an equivalently strong person today capable? Moreover, there's many duties in the army that don't directly require top decile strength. Naturally, some of these will need to be done by people who are recovering (since, having recovered, perhaps they will be top decile again). But the amount of technical skill in modern warfare is considerable. A woman could control a drone strike fair easier than a man in recovery. Aside from snide comments, do you have any reason to think half an army is better than a whole one?