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Mind your words. “Jaywalking” is not illegal or wrong or even inappropriate in most jurisdictions. Here in Ontario, it is only illegal if you are crossing the s

Mind your words. “Jaywalking” is not illegal or wrong or even inappropriate in most jurisdictions. Here in Ontario, it is only illegal if you are crossing the street near an intersection and deliberately trying to circumvent a light or other control on pedestrian crossing. Crossing anywhee else is perfectly legal, and it’s a driver’s responsibility to avoid pedestrians doing perfectly normal things like crossing the fucking street. Nothing inappropriate about crossing the street. What’s inappropriate is trying to blame the victim and make everyone in the world adjust their behaviour to coddle a few crooks trying to pump and dump the shares of their company that doesn't have a viable business model. What’s inappropriate is deciding to cut costs by only putting one human in the test car, so they are responsible for monitoring the vehicle and safety, instead of splitting the job between two or more people, which is standard in the industry for test vehicles. Jaywalker is not the correct term.

matz1 7y ago
>Mind your words. “Jaywalking” is not illegal or wrong or even inappropriate in most jurisdictions Then it should be. It is also a pedestrians responsibility to avoid cars doing perfectly normal thing like using the road. Likewise its inappropriate to blame the car driver and make everyone in the world adjust their behavior.
- braythwayt 7y ago
  I’m blaming the company. The list of ways they made this happen is a kilometre long. Are you ignoring all that or unaware of it? Are you here to be provide the opinion that pedestrians need to dodge companies doing their alpha testing on public streets? And why the fuck should jaywalking be illegal? I’m sitting in my car. You’re on foot. Why should I have some almighty right to drive around without looking for you? Streets are for all citizens, and crossing streets should be safe for everyone, even distracted pedestrians. It’s 2019. Crossing the street should not be a life-or-death proposition. It’s ridiculous that capitalism gives us battery powered scooters to rent by the trip, and rockets that can land themselves on a barge, but somehow the idea that we can make streets safe for cyclists and pedestrians is too difficult or ideologically impossible. Well, if you look outside of America, you can see that other countries get this right.
  - matz1 7y ago
    >And why the fuck should jaywalking be illegal Because it can endanger the car driver too. Yes streets is for all citizen, including for car driver. Yes thats why designated crossing place is made, to make it safer for the pedestrians. >Well, if you look outside of America, you can see that other countries get this right Sure, from your perspective. But from mine, America is the right one. Even in America sadly they don't enforce it as much as I like.
    - romwell 7y ago
      I sincerely wish you to lose your driver's license, if only for a brief period of time, so that you could appreciate just how much our infrastructure is unsuitable for pedestrians. We barely have sidewalks in most places. And you suggest outlawing "jaywalking"? And all of that is happening on taxpayers' dime. Don't get me wrong, I'm driving everywhere too - but I'm taking advantage of the infrastructure my non-driving friends have chipped in for (some of them - gasp - walk to work in SF!). Sorry, but your perspective is not American. Just entitled.
      - matz1 7y ago
        You are suggesting that pedestrian to be allowed to cross and walk anywhere ? Who is the entitled now ?
        speedplane 7y ago
        > You are suggesting that pedestrian to be allowed to cross and walk anywhere? Pedestrians should not be allowed to walk anywhere they want, but the penalty for an infraction should not be death.
        matz1 7y ago
        Sure, if you can find a way that is not restricting the car driver.
- Wowfunhappy 7y ago
  If I'm nowhere near a crosswalk, how do you suggest I get to the other side of the street? (I'm thinking of a road near where I went to college where I would have had to walk a solid ten minutes to get to a crosswalk and back. Most people just had cars, but I didn't, and I had to cross to get to the mall.)
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - matz1 7y ago
    Right, You find a way to get a car. If you can't or don't want to then you have to figure out yourself.
    - romwell 7y ago
      >Right, You find a way to get a car. If you can't or don't want to then you have to figure out yourself. Right, because screw poor, disabled, elderly, children, international students (most of whom don't drive when they arrive here), and so on. You know what, fine. The way pedestrians will "figure it out themselves" is by simply banning cars from cities, because, apparently, there can be no compromise. As your response indicates, asking the drivers to go slow and look out for people in the suburbs is apparently too much. (I guess you also oppose spending money on constructing sidewalks, because why can't everyone get a car instead? – but that's beside the point of the argument). Saying "get a car, or GTFO" is the entitlement I was talking about.
      - matz1 7y ago
        Likewise you are indirectly saying "screw the car driver", "just go slow", etc You can try to ban cars from cities but of course, I would not support it and I hope it be challenged. "Just go slow" is in itself an entitlement too.
        romwell 7y ago
        My position: in cities, cars and pedestrian are sharing the environment that is predominantly hostile towards pedestrian (lack sidewalks and crossings), but are well-designed for cars. In exchange for getting the car-friendly infrastructure (instead of having speed bumps and 15mph speed limits), the drivers are asked to drive cautiously and attentively, and be mindful of pedestrians, who might not always cross the street in places that are convenient for drivers (because the infrastructure is so broken that they are forced to do this merely to get to places). When an accident happens, it is the pedestrian who will die. Driving is a privilege that comes with the responsibility to avoid this. Your position: nah. ---------------- Asking to go slow and pay attention to the road where pedestrians can be is not "entitlement", it's the law, it's the traffic rules, and it's your responsibility as a driver that you volunteer for in exchange for getting the privilege of driving. Anyway, "just go slow" is not comparable to "just stop being poor / unable to drive". I hope you can see the difference.

matz1 7y ago

>Mind your words. “Jaywalking” is not illegal or wrong or even inappropriate in most jurisdictions Then it should be. It is also a pedestrians responsibility to avoid cars doing perfectly normal thing like using the road. Likewise its inappropriate to blame the car driver and make everyone in the world adjust their behavior.

braythwayt 7y ago
I’m blaming the company. The list of ways they made this happen is a kilometre long. Are you ignoring all that or unaware of it? Are you here to be provide the opinion that pedestrians need to dodge companies doing their alpha testing on public streets? And why the fuck should jaywalking be illegal? I’m sitting in my car. You’re on foot. Why should I have some almighty right to drive around without looking for you? Streets are for all citizens, and crossing streets should be safe for everyone, even distracted pedestrians. It’s 2019. Crossing the street should not be a life-or-death proposition. It’s ridiculous that capitalism gives us battery powered scooters to rent by the trip, and rockets that can land themselves on a barge, but somehow the idea that we can make streets safe for cyclists and pedestrians is too difficult or ideologically impossible. Well, if you look outside of America, you can see that other countries get this right.
- matz1 7y ago
  >And why the fuck should jaywalking be illegal Because it can endanger the car driver too. Yes streets is for all citizen, including for car driver. Yes thats why designated crossing place is made, to make it safer for the pedestrians. >Well, if you look outside of America, you can see that other countries get this right Sure, from your perspective. But from mine, America is the right one. Even in America sadly they don't enforce it as much as I like.
  - romwell 7y ago
    I sincerely wish you to lose your driver's license, if only for a brief period of time, so that you could appreciate just how much our infrastructure is unsuitable for pedestrians. We barely have sidewalks in most places. And you suggest outlawing "jaywalking"? And all of that is happening on taxpayers' dime. Don't get me wrong, I'm driving everywhere too - but I'm taking advantage of the infrastructure my non-driving friends have chipped in for (some of them - gasp - walk to work in SF!). Sorry, but your perspective is not American. Just entitled.
    - matz1 7y ago
      You are suggesting that pedestrian to be allowed to cross and walk anywhere ? Who is the entitled now ?
      - speedplane 7y ago
        > You are suggesting that pedestrian to be allowed to cross and walk anywhere? Pedestrians should not be allowed to walk anywhere they want, but the penalty for an infraction should not be death.
        matz1 7y ago
        Sure, if you can find a way that is not restricting the car driver.
Wowfunhappy 7y ago
If I'm nowhere near a crosswalk, how do you suggest I get to the other side of the street? (I'm thinking of a road near where I went to college where I would have had to walk a solid ten minutes to get to a crosswalk and back. Most people just had cars, but I didn't, and I had to cross to get to the mall.)
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- matz1 7y ago
  Right, You find a way to get a car. If you can't or don't want to then you have to figure out yourself.
  - romwell 7y ago
    >Right, You find a way to get a car. If you can't or don't want to then you have to figure out yourself. Right, because screw poor, disabled, elderly, children, international students (most of whom don't drive when they arrive here), and so on. You know what, fine. The way pedestrians will "figure it out themselves" is by simply banning cars from cities, because, apparently, there can be no compromise. As your response indicates, asking the drivers to go slow and look out for people in the suburbs is apparently too much. (I guess you also oppose spending money on constructing sidewalks, because why can't everyone get a car instead? – but that's beside the point of the argument). Saying "get a car, or GTFO" is the entitlement I was talking about.
    - matz1 7y ago
      Likewise you are indirectly saying "screw the car driver", "just go slow", etc You can try to ban cars from cities but of course, I would not support it and I hope it be challenged. "Just go slow" is in itself an entitlement too.
      - romwell 7y ago
        My position: in cities, cars and pedestrian are sharing the environment that is predominantly hostile towards pedestrian (lack sidewalks and crossings), but are well-designed for cars. In exchange for getting the car-friendly infrastructure (instead of having speed bumps and 15mph speed limits), the drivers are asked to drive cautiously and attentively, and be mindful of pedestrians, who might not always cross the street in places that are convenient for drivers (because the infrastructure is so broken that they are forced to do this merely to get to places). When an accident happens, it is the pedestrian who will die. Driving is a privilege that comes with the responsibility to avoid this. Your position: nah. ---------------- Asking to go slow and pay attention to the road where pedestrians can be is not "entitlement", it's the law, it's the traffic rules, and it's your responsibility as a driver that you volunteer for in exchange for getting the privilege of driving. Anyway, "just go slow" is not comparable to "just stop being poor / unable to drive". I hope you can see the difference.