5 ms·

Ask HN: A founder with a criminal record

10 points by throwaway012011 16y ago

I was reading an article, though I can not remember where, that said that Angel and VCs will pull out of a company where the founder has an undisclosed criminal record. Is this the case for most VCs? Is there any way to get around that? If you are just honest, maybe not at first, but when you get to know the VC, do you think that would help? In this case the conviction was when I was a teenager, though over 18, and it was a felony that involved theft. I have since then, over 16 years, held many jobs that require trust, and have not done anything wrong at all.

emrahyalaz 16y ago
I just got a DUI. I don't need a VC, but if a VC were to reject me b/c of this I'd find another one. I don't think you can win if the other party has such a limiting belief.
- andrewtbham 16y ago
  if it's your first dui, it's probably not a felony.
- WillyF 16y ago
  I don't think that not wanting to invest in someone who has recently shown a complete failure in judgment is much of a limiting belief. If you can't take other people's lives seriously, how can you be expected to take other people's money seriously? If the DUI were a little further in the past then it would be a different story, and I'm sure there are VCs out there wouldn't care about a recent one, but if I were a VC I'd move on pretty quickly.
  - emrahyalaz 16y ago
    Oh, please:) Tell me overwhelming majority never operated an internal combustion engine under influence. I didn't say I don't take other people's lives seriously. I said I got caught. Now, holding a belief that this somehow causes a reduction in my performance to create something that humans like, is indeed a limiting belief. Forget about causality, one would be hard pressed to display co-existence in that domain. I would expect the co-existence to point to the inverse: increased intoxicating chemical consumption co-exists with increased creativity (probably, mainly because pure creativity is not exactly human).
emrahyalaz 16y ago
I just got a DUI. I don't need a VC, but if a VC were to reject me b/c of this I'd find another one. I don't think you can win if the other party has such a limiting belief.
emrahyalaz 16y ago
I just got a DUI. I don't need a VC, but if a VC were to reject me b/c of this I'd find another one. I don't think you can win if the other party has such a limiting belief.
rst 16y ago
I'd think the key word there is "undisclosed". If they're going to find out, they had better find out from you.
- throwaway012011 16y ago
  I agree, and I would definitely bring it to their attention AFTER we got our foot in the door, but way before funding.
mmaunder 16y ago
Lets face it, it's not a point in your favor. But the good news is that trust can be earned. I trust people I've worked with who have pulled 20 hour days with me or who I've climbed mountains with and who have held the rope my life depends on. So put yourself in positions where you are exposed to investors and where you have an opportunity to earn their trust. I would also take the strategy of being very very open about this. Post a blog entry that says: My name is Mike Jones, I have a criminal record, I'm creating a startup that does XYZ. You could even capitalize on it: Create a startup that is a job board for ex cons. Or a forum where people with records in their distant pasts can share notes and advice on how to work around it.
brudgers 16y ago
If after disclosing the felony conviction you can discuss it intelligently, I doubt it would be a deal breaker. Although someone might use it as an excuse to back away, I doubt that a conviction half a lifetime ago would be the main reason. Particularly if you are part of a strong team.
- throwaway012011 16y ago
  Thank you, that makes me feel better.
bobf 16y ago
Have you looked into the possibility of having it expunged?
- throwaway012011 16y ago
  The state in question, SC, doesn't allow felonies to be expunged. I have thought about hiring a lawyer and tossing money at the problem, but since I live in CA normal background checks don't return anything, but extensive ones do.
jacquesm 16y ago
The age bracket is a dicey one, personally I wouldn't fret about it too much but I would definitely be the one to disclose it to my co-founders, no need to tell the world. Typically getting to the state where you have contact with VCs and are fundable is the harder problem to solve, I doubt a 'name' VC would be overly worried about this unless it was something very recent and major, though it probably does not help any character assessment. If there was doubt it will tend to reinforce that doubt, if there was no doubt then my guess is that it would be taken in stride. If you spent two years in jail that would be a different matter but the way you present it here it seems as though it was more of a slap-on-the-wrist style thing. Play it down, plenty of people have done dumb stuff in their youth (I used to run a pirate radio station and built a whole bunch of transmitters for others for example, highly illegal at the time, but I never got caught) but make sure that if they're going to find out that they find out from you and not from a another party, and make sure that you realize that if you do not tell those the work with, depend on you and fund you that you're setting yourself up for blackmail.
- throwaway012011 16y ago
  My co-founder is my best friend and someone I consider a little brother. He knows, and has known for as long as I have known him.
jemptymethod 16y ago
I've got a felony conviction from over 22 years ago, and for contract hunting, I actually turn this into an advantage. For instance, I "advertise" as already having a clean background check going back 15-20 years. For your situation, just be up-front with your co-founders (which I read you have), and perhaps stay out of any function that involves finances.
wasabadguy 16y ago
I'm in a similar boat as you although not quite as far removed from the conviction/s. It can be very tough at times, because my record is going to follow me for the rest of my life. I've changed completely and lived on the right side of the law for years but I continue to lose work from time to time due to my record. In general, I don't bring it up to people but when I'm questioned about it, I always answer honestly. I can be trusted. A some of my friends have laughed at one time or another about stealing supplies from their company or how much they slack off. I will probably always be a better employee then them and they will probably always have a lot easier time finding jobs. I was lucky enough to have my felony expunged and the rest of the incidents don't look good but are far easier to explain. I'd look into getting your felony expunged, here's some new info you may not have seen: Gay v. Ariail (http://www.judicial.state.sc.us/opinions/displayOpinion.cfm?caseNo=26592 http://www.judicial.state.sc.us/opinions/displayOpinion.cfm?...) in 2009 decided that a person could have their record expunged after 15 years pursuant to SC's Youthful Offender Act even if the person was not sentenced under YOA provisions. You mention being a teenager but over 18, so I'm assuming 18 or 19. A youthful offender is defined as someone between 17 and 25. It also needs to be 15 years before you can expunge the record (you've stated 16). The other part of the puzzle is that your conviction can not be a violent crime. You mention a felony theft, so hopefully that's just due to $ amount. SC's definition of violent crimes can be found at http://www.scstatehouse.gov/code/t16c001.htm http://www.scstatehouse.gov/code/t16c001.htm (Section 16-1-60). If you want to talk to someone (albeit younger) who's dealt with a lot of similar situations, let me know and we can find a way to communicate. Best of luck either way. It sounds like you changed your life around and deserve to be trusted today. Loophole / Possible Alternative: Quit, don't be a founder, be a well-compensated first employee or something similar.

emrahyalaz 16y ago

I just got a DUI. I don't need a VC, but if a VC were to reject me b/c of this I'd find another one. I don't think you can win if the other party has such a limiting belief.

andrewtbham 16y ago
if it's your first dui, it's probably not a felony.
WillyF 16y ago
I don't think that not wanting to invest in someone who has recently shown a complete failure in judgment is much of a limiting belief. If you can't take other people's lives seriously, how can you be expected to take other people's money seriously? If the DUI were a little further in the past then it would be a different story, and I'm sure there are VCs out there wouldn't care about a recent one, but if I were a VC I'd move on pretty quickly.
- emrahyalaz 16y ago
  Oh, please:) Tell me overwhelming majority never operated an internal combustion engine under influence. I didn't say I don't take other people's lives seriously. I said I got caught. Now, holding a belief that this somehow causes a reduction in my performance to create something that humans like, is indeed a limiting belief. Forget about causality, one would be hard pressed to display co-existence in that domain. I would expect the co-existence to point to the inverse: increased intoxicating chemical consumption co-exists with increased creativity (probably, mainly because pure creativity is not exactly human).

emrahyalaz 16y ago

I just got a DUI. I don't need a VC, but if a VC were to reject me b/c of this I'd find another one. I don't think you can win if the other party has such a limiting belief.

emrahyalaz 16y ago

I just got a DUI. I don't need a VC, but if a VC were to reject me b/c of this I'd find another one. I don't think you can win if the other party has such a limiting belief.

rst 16y ago

I'd think the key word there is "undisclosed". If they're going to find out, they had better find out from you.

throwaway012011 16y ago
I agree, and I would definitely bring it to their attention AFTER we got our foot in the door, but way before funding.

mmaunder 16y ago

Lets face it, it's not a point in your favor. But the good news is that trust can be earned. I trust people I've worked with who have pulled 20 hour days with me or who I've climbed mountains with and who have held the rope my life depends on. So put yourself in positions where you are exposed to investors and where you have an opportunity to earn their trust. I would also take the strategy of being very very open about this. Post a blog entry that says: My name is Mike Jones, I have a criminal record, I'm creating a startup that does XYZ. You could even capitalize on it: Create a startup that is a job board for ex cons. Or a forum where people with records in their distant pasts can share notes and advice on how to work around it.

brudgers 16y ago

If after disclosing the felony conviction you can discuss it intelligently, I doubt it would be a deal breaker. Although someone might use it as an excuse to back away, I doubt that a conviction half a lifetime ago would be the main reason. Particularly if you are part of a strong team.

throwaway012011 16y ago
Thank you, that makes me feel better.

bobf 16y ago

Have you looked into the possibility of having it expunged?

throwaway012011 16y ago
The state in question, SC, doesn't allow felonies to be expunged. I have thought about hiring a lawyer and tossing money at the problem, but since I live in CA normal background checks don't return anything, but extensive ones do.

jacquesm 16y ago

The age bracket is a dicey one, personally I wouldn't fret about it too much but I would definitely be the one to disclose it to my co-founders, no need to tell the world. Typically getting to the state where you have contact with VCs and are fundable is the harder problem to solve, I doubt a 'name' VC would be overly worried about this unless it was something very recent and major, though it probably does not help any character assessment. If there was doubt it will tend to reinforce that doubt, if there was no doubt then my guess is that it would be taken in stride. If you spent two years in jail that would be a different matter but the way you present it here it seems as though it was more of a slap-on-the-wrist style thing. Play it down, plenty of people have done dumb stuff in their youth (I used to run a pirate radio station and built a whole bunch of transmitters for others for example, highly illegal at the time, but I never got caught) but make sure that if they're going to find out that they find out from you and not from a another party, and make sure that you realize that if you do not tell those the work with, depend on you and fund you that you're setting yourself up for blackmail.

throwaway012011 16y ago
My co-founder is my best friend and someone I consider a little brother. He knows, and has known for as long as I have known him.

jemptymethod 16y ago

I've got a felony conviction from over 22 years ago, and for contract hunting, I actually turn this into an advantage. For instance, I "advertise" as already having a clean background check going back 15-20 years. For your situation, just be up-front with your co-founders (which I read you have), and perhaps stay out of any function that involves finances.

wasabadguy 16y ago

I'm in a similar boat as you although not quite as far removed from the conviction/s. It can be very tough at times, because my record is going to follow me for the rest of my life. I've changed completely and lived on the right side of the law for years but I continue to lose work from time to time due to my record. In general, I don't bring it up to people but when I'm questioned about it, I always answer honestly. I can be trusted. A some of my friends have laughed at one time or another about stealing supplies from their company or how much they slack off. I will probably always be a better employee then them and they will probably always have a lot easier time finding jobs. I was lucky enough to have my felony expunged and the rest of the incidents don't look good but are far easier to explain. I'd look into getting your felony expunged, here's some new info you may not have seen: Gay v. Ariail (http://www.judicial.state.sc.us/opinions/displayOpinion.cfm?caseNo=26592 http://www.judicial.state.sc.us/opinions/displayOpinion.cfm?...) in 2009 decided that a person could have their record expunged after 15 years pursuant to SC's Youthful Offender Act even if the person was not sentenced under YOA provisions. You mention being a teenager but over 18, so I'm assuming 18 or 19. A youthful offender is defined as someone between 17 and 25. It also needs to be 15 years before you can expunge the record (you've stated 16). The other part of the puzzle is that your conviction can not be a violent crime. You mention a felony theft, so hopefully that's just due to $ amount. SC's definition of violent crimes can be found at http://www.scstatehouse.gov/code/t16c001.htm http://www.scstatehouse.gov/code/t16c001.htm (Section 16-1-60). If you want to talk to someone (albeit younger) who's dealt with a lot of similar situations, let me know and we can find a way to communicate. Best of luck either way. It sounds like you changed your life around and deserve to be trusted today. Loophole / Possible Alternative: Quit, don't be a founder, be a well-compensated first employee or something similar.