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That's an expensive car in European standards. 20k is what most people pay for a car here. 45k car is a luxury imho.

C1sc0cat 7y ago
In which European state is this I bet there is a difference between the ex Warsaw pact sates where a Trabant or a 2 generation old Fiat was a luxury, and the Rich parts of Germany or the UK
- wongarsu 7y ago
  Living in Western Germany I mostly see vehicles in the 10k-25k range. There is a difference if you go to the most expensive cities though, like Munich.
  - C1sc0cat 7y ago
    You cant use anecdotes here you need to look at the figures - at one point Greece had the highest number (relative to population) of Porsche Caynnes
jlg23 7y ago
Which Europe are you talking about? 20k gets you a halfway decent Dacia at best...
- richardknop 7y ago
  Maybe I’m from a background where 45k for a car seems like a rich people thing. That’s how I feel
- richardknop 7y ago
  Just to clarify. I come from a background where buying a fresh new BMW or Mercedes or Audi from the factory (latest model) is something rich people do. Middle class can not afford that.
- fluffything 7y ago
  For 48k EUR I can buy a decent Porsche Panamera, for example. https://www.autoscout24.de/angebote/porsche-panamera-4-s-individual-fond-tv-belueftung-bose-benzin-schwarz- https://www.autoscout24.de/angebote/porsche-panamera-4-s-ind... For 20k EUR I get a decent Mercedes C 220: https://www.autoscout24.de/angebote/mercedes-benz-c-220-c-klasse-lim-c-220-bluetec-d-diesel-weiss-debc3d6a-bd45-4696-a93d-2dc107fbca3e?cldtidx=3 https://www.autoscout24.de/angebote/mercedes-benz-c-220-c-kl... or a decent E350 with 40k km (similar to the one I bought, see below): https://www.autoscout24.de/angebote/mercedes-benz-e-350-t-cdi-dpf-4matic-blueefficiency-7g-tronic-elegance-diesel-schwarz-e0e0a2b3-0b02-448e-9462-7a6f6a8202d3?cldtidx=1&cldtsrc=zeroResults# https://www.autoscout24.de/angebote/mercedes-benz-e-350-t-cd... etc. The only people buying new cars in Germany are either private companies / leasing companies, or rich people that don't know what to do with their money. You can get pretty much any 2 year old car with 20-40k km for 1/2 of the original price in perfect condition, and 1/4 of the original price with 100k km and being 3 year old model which is more or less what many leasing car get in the 2-3 years its leased. I was looking for a car in the ~<80k EUR segment early this year and ended up paying 26k for an E350 from 2016 with 60k km and 3 years warranty, and buying a super sport bike also used for 9k as well instead, and saved over 50k EUR in the process that I ended up putting in ETFs. Buying new cars makes zero economic sense. Even if you try to buy from the German manufacturers here, their websites offer you used cars ("refubrished") with 5 years warranty for a fraction of the price. If you are looking for a car in the 40k EUR segment, for buying new to be worth it would mean that 20k EUR are "nothing" for you, which is hard to believe because if that were the case you'd be actually looking at cars in at least the 80-120k range. Even for somebody making 120k EUR/year, 20k EUR is still not pocket change, its two months salary full-time.
  - llampx 7y ago
    The only issue I have with this is that you can't really buy used EVs yet. I'm interested in buying an EV but it's like smartphones in 2008 - the rate of improvement is high so it makes sense to buy new.
    - fluffything 7y ago
      You can buy used EVs, but for example, used teslas are in the 40k EUR range, which is quite expensive. I'm not sure why they are so expensive, but I can imagine that if you have to retrofit the battery system for 20-30k EUR before reselling them, then that's going to drive their price up quite a bit.

In which European state is this I bet there is a difference between the ex Warsaw pact sates where a Trabant or a 2 generation old Fiat was a luxury, and the Rich parts of Germany or the UK

wongarsu 7y ago
Living in Western Germany I mostly see vehicles in the 10k-25k range. There is a difference if you go to the most expensive cities though, like Munich.
- C1sc0cat 7y ago
  You cant use anecdotes here you need to look at the figures - at one point Greece had the highest number (relative to population) of Porsche Caynnes

jlg23 7y ago

Which Europe are you talking about? 20k gets you a halfway decent Dacia at best...

richardknop 7y ago
Maybe I’m from a background where 45k for a car seems like a rich people thing. That’s how I feel
richardknop 7y ago
Just to clarify. I come from a background where buying a fresh new BMW or Mercedes or Audi from the factory (latest model) is something rich people do. Middle class can not afford that.
fluffything 7y ago
For 48k EUR I can buy a decent Porsche Panamera, for example. https://www.autoscout24.de/angebote/porsche-panamera-4-s-individual-fond-tv-belueftung-bose-benzin-schwarz- https://www.autoscout24.de/angebote/porsche-panamera-4-s-ind... For 20k EUR I get a decent Mercedes C 220: https://www.autoscout24.de/angebote/mercedes-benz-c-220-c-klasse-lim-c-220-bluetec-d-diesel-weiss-debc3d6a-bd45-4696-a93d-2dc107fbca3e?cldtidx=3 https://www.autoscout24.de/angebote/mercedes-benz-c-220-c-kl... or a decent E350 with 40k km (similar to the one I bought, see below): https://www.autoscout24.de/angebote/mercedes-benz-e-350-t-cdi-dpf-4matic-blueefficiency-7g-tronic-elegance-diesel-schwarz-e0e0a2b3-0b02-448e-9462-7a6f6a8202d3?cldtidx=1&cldtsrc=zeroResults# https://www.autoscout24.de/angebote/mercedes-benz-e-350-t-cd... etc. The only people buying new cars in Germany are either private companies / leasing companies, or rich people that don't know what to do with their money. You can get pretty much any 2 year old car with 20-40k km for 1/2 of the original price in perfect condition, and 1/4 of the original price with 100k km and being 3 year old model which is more or less what many leasing car get in the 2-3 years its leased. I was looking for a car in the ~<80k EUR segment early this year and ended up paying 26k for an E350 from 2016 with 60k km and 3 years warranty, and buying a super sport bike also used for 9k as well instead, and saved over 50k EUR in the process that I ended up putting in ETFs. Buying new cars makes zero economic sense. Even if you try to buy from the German manufacturers here, their websites offer you used cars ("refubrished") with 5 years warranty for a fraction of the price. If you are looking for a car in the 40k EUR segment, for buying new to be worth it would mean that 20k EUR are "nothing" for you, which is hard to believe because if that were the case you'd be actually looking at cars in at least the 80-120k range. Even for somebody making 120k EUR/year, 20k EUR is still not pocket change, its two months salary full-time.
- llampx 7y ago
  The only issue I have with this is that you can't really buy used EVs yet. I'm interested in buying an EV but it's like smartphones in 2008 - the rate of improvement is high so it makes sense to buy new.
  - fluffything 7y ago
    You can buy used EVs, but for example, used teslas are in the 40k EUR range, which is quite expensive. I'm not sure why they are so expensive, but I can imagine that if you have to retrofit the battery system for 20-30k EUR before reselling them, then that's going to drive their price up quite a bit.