4 ms·

> typical company cars that will very rarely use the electric engine This is backwards, plugin hybrids rarely use their gas engines. BMW 330e 2020 has a 20 mi

> typical company cars that will very rarely use the electric engine This is backwards, plugin hybrids rarely use their gas engines. BMW 330e 2020 has a 20 mile electric only range (about the same as Prius Prime). Average German car trip distance is 11 miles [0] Even if the trip is longer than 20 miles, it will only use the gas after the electric runs out. [0] Large PDF, average car trip distance on page 50 https://setis.ec.europa.eu/system/files/Driving_and_parking_patterns_of_European_car_drivers-a_mobility_survey.pdf https://setis.ec.europa.eu/system/files/Driving_and_parking_...

gibolt 7y ago
It should be that way, in a perfect world. I believe there was a study/survey in the UK. Business owners take the extra subsidies to get a cheaper fleet. They found that only a tiny portion had even unwrapped the charging cables, treating them just like an ICE vehicle. Can't seem to find the link :/
- reacweb 7y ago
  My brother has one. He always uses electric first.
- skybrian 7y ago
  While that's unfortunate, I'm wondering how long these fleets keep cars before they're sold? It seems like this would improve availability of plug-in hybrids on the used car market.
dillz 7y ago
If I understand that correctly, the survey includes all kinds of trips, including short daily drives grocery shopping and commutes. I think typical business trips in Germany are significantly above that average, but I might be wrong. edit: Anecdotal: My father-in-law is a typical German field staff. Average daily driving distance is ~60 miles. And he certainly would not charge the car at home over night, from his private electricity bill. I doubt many people would.
- thinkcontext 7y ago
  Do you have any numbers that back up what percentage of German driving is covered by what you are talking about? I gave numbers for average German driving, therefore more than 50% of German driving trips can be handled with no gas by a plugin hybrid. This cannot be considered "rarely" as was your original contention. Even your 60 mile example, 1/3 of the distance being covered by electric is not "rarely". Do plugin hybrids or EVs solve all current transportation problems for all transport distances? No. Is there a issue with subsidizing luxury vehicles? Yes. But I wanted to correct your incorrect statement about plugin hybrids.
  - dillz 7y ago
    You are right, the average car trip is covered by plugin hybrids. I was referring to business trips, i.e. the typical clientele of the car types in my OP. The average business driving distance (not commute) is twice the average of all drives. (source: Chapter 3.2 in [1]) If only businessmen/fieldstaff/etc. are taken into account and no craftsmen/tradesmen numbers would be even higher. (read: drivers of said premium hybrids vs. box wagons) [1] https://www.adac.de/_mmm/pdf/statistik_mobilitaet_in_deutschland_0111_46603.pdf https://www.adac.de/_mmm/pdf/statistik_mobilitaet_in_deutsch...
    - thinkcontext 7y ago
      I stand by my contention that 1/3 of a 60 mile trip being run on electric is not "rare".

gibolt 7y ago

It should be that way, in a perfect world. I believe there was a study/survey in the UK. Business owners take the extra subsidies to get a cheaper fleet. They found that only a tiny portion had even unwrapped the charging cables, treating them just like an ICE vehicle. Can't seem to find the link :/

reacweb 7y ago
My brother has one. He always uses electric first.
skybrian 7y ago
While that's unfortunate, I'm wondering how long these fleets keep cars before they're sold? It seems like this would improve availability of plug-in hybrids on the used car market.

dillz 7y ago

If I understand that correctly, the survey includes all kinds of trips, including short daily drives grocery shopping and commutes. I think typical business trips in Germany are significantly above that average, but I might be wrong. edit: Anecdotal: My father-in-law is a typical German field staff. Average daily driving distance is ~60 miles. And he certainly would not charge the car at home over night, from his private electricity bill. I doubt many people would.

thinkcontext 7y ago
Do you have any numbers that back up what percentage of German driving is covered by what you are talking about? I gave numbers for average German driving, therefore more than 50% of German driving trips can be handled with no gas by a plugin hybrid. This cannot be considered "rarely" as was your original contention. Even your 60 mile example, 1/3 of the distance being covered by electric is not "rarely". Do plugin hybrids or EVs solve all current transportation problems for all transport distances? No. Is there a issue with subsidizing luxury vehicles? Yes. But I wanted to correct your incorrect statement about plugin hybrids.
- dillz 7y ago
  You are right, the average car trip is covered by plugin hybrids. I was referring to business trips, i.e. the typical clientele of the car types in my OP. The average business driving distance (not commute) is twice the average of all drives. (source: Chapter 3.2 in [1]) If only businessmen/fieldstaff/etc. are taken into account and no craftsmen/tradesmen numbers would be even higher. (read: drivers of said premium hybrids vs. box wagons) [1] https://www.adac.de/_mmm/pdf/statistik_mobilitaet_in_deutschland_0111_46603.pdf https://www.adac.de/_mmm/pdf/statistik_mobilitaet_in_deutsch...
  - thinkcontext 7y ago
    I stand by my contention that 1/3 of a 60 mile trip being run on electric is not "rare".