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Not only VW, any company can opt-in to the subsidies: the state pays half and the company the other half. What's funny is how the requirement of a <= 60k EUR c

Not only VW, any company can opt-in to the subsidies: the state pays half and the company the other half. What's funny is how the requirement of a <= 60k EUR car price means that those buying a Tesla won't get any subsidies. It's kind of understandable though: in Germany most cars are sold in the 10-20k EUR range, so it would be political suicide to create a subsidy to pay for what most citizens consider a luxury. Subsidizing cars in the 40k-60k EUR is quite outrageous already IMO.

the-dude 7y ago
In NL we have this subsidy for the rich.
- radicalbyte 7y ago
  The people I see driving around in Tesla (or large Audi/Volvo) here aren't really rich, more have a decent job and a willingness to spend a substantial amount of money on a car. I don't understand it personally, I prefer cycling and having my mortgage paid off but everyone to their own :) I guess if you're in your 50s then you paid very little for your house so it makes sense to pay the 1200 EUR a month net for a car.
  - Tepix 7y ago
    If you can afford a car for 60k € you are among the top 10% richest persons on the planet.
    - zaroth 7y ago
      I mean, generally I do not disagree, but that makes a lot of assumptions about depreciation rate, interest rate, and OpEx.
  - the-dude 7y ago
    I don't know the numbers, but a Tesla is specifically attractive for a business owner. The subsidy is absurd. The government has acknowledged this now, and it will tapered down / abolished. Not sure.
    - radicalbyte 7y ago
      The biggest subsidy is given to old cars - instead of using the new price you can use the market price. It's very common for business owners to purchase these old luxury cars with company money then pay 21% of the market price a year instead of 21% of the sale price. For electric cars you pay 4% of the new price for the first 50k then 21% over the rest. Your employer pays the lease itself (about 1.2k EUR for a Model 3 last I checked). Although this is marketed as a "tax cut to the rich" that isn't completely true. Most new car sales here come from leases. In 4 years time these cars will hit the second hand market and be bought by people like me. We should absolutely be increasing tax on the most environmentally unfriendly leases and using that money to fund the lower rate on pure electric cars. Let the SUV drivers pay.
- C1sc0cat 7y ago
  A lot of these electricity subsidies are for the rich or well off in the UK you could get a twenty year guaranteed 8% return on investment of 10k for solar. Which is great you like Me or my parents who have a spare 8-10k - if your a single mom living in rented accommodation who buys her electricity via a key not so much.
  - pkaye 7y ago
    > buys her electricity via a key not so much. What does "via a key" mean?
    - the-dude 7y ago
      I am not sure of the current mechanism, but I know the UK has "coin" systems for gas ( heating ). So you would buy a coin, put it into your meter at home, and get a certain amount of gas. This is, of course, tailored at the poor.
      - C1sc0cat 7y ago
        And of course is more expensive see the Vimes Boot Theory
thinkcontext 7y ago
Tesla Model 3 has a base price of 44.5K EUR. https://cleantechnica.com/2019/04/13/tesla-model-3-vs-bmw-3-series-in-germany-3x-better-model-3-could-save-owner-e10000-in-4-years/ https://cleantechnica.com/2019/04/13/tesla-model-3-vs-bmw-3-...
- close04 7y ago
  Why link to some 3rd party site when you can link to the source of truth, the Tesla site [0] (currently at 44.390€)? https://www.tesla.com/de_DE/model3/design https://www.tesla.com/de_DE/model3/design
  - thinkcontext 7y ago
    Because it took me through a landing page in German.
    - close04 7y ago
      I'd honestly pick a site that gives me the correct figure at any time after potentially having to click through a German landing page (which I'm not getting to be honest and it's the first time I visit from this browser and machine) [0] than one I can understand fully but gives me an outdated (potentially wrong) number. It's not out of the question that Tesla drops the price to 39.999E without the fancy AP hardware so people take full advantage of the subsidy. [0] https://imgur.com/g8fXoin https://imgur.com/g8fXoin
- dmix 7y ago
  That still seems to be covered: > For electric cars over €40,000, there will be an increase in the subsidy by 25%. Any car priced over €60,000 will not supported by the scheme.
- richardknop 7y ago
  That's an expensive car in European standards. 20k is what most people pay for a car here. 45k car is a luxury imho.
gibolt 7y ago
Tesla's lower-end Model 3s fall in that range. Tesla will be announcing their European Gigafactory soon (most likely in Germany), so it is in Germany's best interest to make Teslas more attainable as well. It will increase local jerbs and decrease carbon emissions.
- heyYouD 7y ago
  The most likely placement of the factory is actually in Poland, just east of Germany. It's a great place to have factories, right next door to Germany, and the wider Europe. I'd say Poland is the main candidate for where they'll place anything. Close enough and so much cheaper. Not involved with any of this! Poland stronk. We love Poland in any case.
  - heisenbergs 7y ago
    Not according to Musk and his tweets. The Dutch/French/German border area is what he stated the likely candidate. Plus Tesla Grohman and Tesla EU HQ are nearby.
JTon 7y ago
I cannot confirm this first hand, but I've heard water cooler stories about Tesla software nerfing the range of their model 3s in Canada. This lowers the base price of vehicle enough to be eligible for a federal subsidy. Once the subsidy is claimed, the owner can buy a software upgrade from the dealer to restore the model 3 to full capability. Pretty sly trick.
- soperj 7y ago
  No, that model isn't really even for sale here in Canada. It only exists for the subsidy. The way the subsidy was worded was that if the lowest price of a vehicle was under a threshold then you'd get the subsidy on the other versions, so they created a basically unpurchasable version for that purpose. (I believe you actually have to email the company to purchase it. I doubt there's been even one purchase).
Tepix 7y ago
As part of this expansion they are raising the limit from 60k € to 65k €
tgsovlerkhgsel 7y ago
> the company the other half. How does that work? Assuming a base state of * Car costs $34000, subsidy is $4000, manufacturer pays $2000 How are the two following scenarios different: * Car costs $34000, subsidy is $5000, manufacturer pays $2000 * Car costs $35000, subsidy is $6000, manufacturer pays $3000 It seems like the "manufacturer pays half" thing is just a trick to make the subsidy appear more palatable to voters/taxpayers, since effectively, the manufacturer is paying itself.

the-dude 7y ago

In NL we have this subsidy for the rich.

radicalbyte 7y ago
The people I see driving around in Tesla (or large Audi/Volvo) here aren't really rich, more have a decent job and a willingness to spend a substantial amount of money on a car. I don't understand it personally, I prefer cycling and having my mortgage paid off but everyone to their own :) I guess if you're in your 50s then you paid very little for your house so it makes sense to pay the 1200 EUR a month net for a car.
- Tepix 7y ago
  If you can afford a car for 60k € you are among the top 10% richest persons on the planet.
  - zaroth 7y ago
    I mean, generally I do not disagree, but that makes a lot of assumptions about depreciation rate, interest rate, and OpEx.
- the-dude 7y ago
  I don't know the numbers, but a Tesla is specifically attractive for a business owner. The subsidy is absurd. The government has acknowledged this now, and it will tapered down / abolished. Not sure.
  - radicalbyte 7y ago
    The biggest subsidy is given to old cars - instead of using the new price you can use the market price. It's very common for business owners to purchase these old luxury cars with company money then pay 21% of the market price a year instead of 21% of the sale price. For electric cars you pay 4% of the new price for the first 50k then 21% over the rest. Your employer pays the lease itself (about 1.2k EUR for a Model 3 last I checked). Although this is marketed as a "tax cut to the rich" that isn't completely true. Most new car sales here come from leases. In 4 years time these cars will hit the second hand market and be bought by people like me. We should absolutely be increasing tax on the most environmentally unfriendly leases and using that money to fund the lower rate on pure electric cars. Let the SUV drivers pay.
C1sc0cat 7y ago
A lot of these electricity subsidies are for the rich or well off in the UK you could get a twenty year guaranteed 8% return on investment of 10k for solar. Which is great you like Me or my parents who have a spare 8-10k - if your a single mom living in rented accommodation who buys her electricity via a key not so much.
- pkaye 7y ago
  > buys her electricity via a key not so much. What does "via a key" mean?
  - the-dude 7y ago
    I am not sure of the current mechanism, but I know the UK has "coin" systems for gas ( heating ). So you would buy a coin, put it into your meter at home, and get a certain amount of gas. This is, of course, tailored at the poor.
    - C1sc0cat 7y ago
      And of course is more expensive see the Vimes Boot Theory

thinkcontext 7y ago

Tesla Model 3 has a base price of 44.5K EUR. https://cleantechnica.com/2019/04/13/tesla-model-3-vs-bmw-3-series-in-germany-3x-better-model-3-could-save-owner-e10000-in-4-years/ https://cleantechnica.com/2019/04/13/tesla-model-3-vs-bmw-3-...

close04 7y ago
Why link to some 3rd party site when you can link to the source of truth, the Tesla site [0] (currently at 44.390€)? https://www.tesla.com/de_DE/model3/design https://www.tesla.com/de_DE/model3/design
- thinkcontext 7y ago
  Because it took me through a landing page in German.
  - close04 7y ago
    I'd honestly pick a site that gives me the correct figure at any time after potentially having to click through a German landing page (which I'm not getting to be honest and it's the first time I visit from this browser and machine) [0] than one I can understand fully but gives me an outdated (potentially wrong) number. It's not out of the question that Tesla drops the price to 39.999E without the fancy AP hardware so people take full advantage of the subsidy. [0] https://imgur.com/g8fXoin https://imgur.com/g8fXoin
dmix 7y ago
That still seems to be covered: > For electric cars over €40,000, there will be an increase in the subsidy by 25%. Any car priced over €60,000 will not supported by the scheme.
richardknop 7y ago
That's an expensive car in European standards. 20k is what most people pay for a car here. 45k car is a luxury imho.

gibolt 7y ago

Tesla's lower-end Model 3s fall in that range. Tesla will be announcing their European Gigafactory soon (most likely in Germany), so it is in Germany's best interest to make Teslas more attainable as well. It will increase local jerbs and decrease carbon emissions.

heyYouD 7y ago
The most likely placement of the factory is actually in Poland, just east of Germany. It's a great place to have factories, right next door to Germany, and the wider Europe. I'd say Poland is the main candidate for where they'll place anything. Close enough and so much cheaper. Not involved with any of this! Poland stronk. We love Poland in any case.
- heisenbergs 7y ago
  Not according to Musk and his tweets. The Dutch/French/German border area is what he stated the likely candidate. Plus Tesla Grohman and Tesla EU HQ are nearby.

JTon 7y ago

I cannot confirm this first hand, but I've heard water cooler stories about Tesla software nerfing the range of their model 3s in Canada. This lowers the base price of vehicle enough to be eligible for a federal subsidy. Once the subsidy is claimed, the owner can buy a software upgrade from the dealer to restore the model 3 to full capability. Pretty sly trick.

soperj 7y ago
No, that model isn't really even for sale here in Canada. It only exists for the subsidy. The way the subsidy was worded was that if the lowest price of a vehicle was under a threshold then you'd get the subsidy on the other versions, so they created a basically unpurchasable version for that purpose. (I believe you actually have to email the company to purchase it. I doubt there's been even one purchase).

Tepix 7y ago

As part of this expansion they are raising the limit from 60k € to 65k €

tgsovlerkhgsel 7y ago

> the company the other half. How does that work? Assuming a base state of * Car costs $34000, subsidy is $4000, manufacturer pays $2000 How are the two following scenarios different: * Car costs $34000, subsidy is $5000, manufacturer pays $2000 * Car costs $35000, subsidy is $6000, manufacturer pays $3000 It seems like the "manufacturer pays half" thing is just a trick to make the subsidy appear more palatable to voters/taxpayers, since effectively, the manufacturer is paying itself.