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It feels perverse to speak of a churches success as a business rather than success through the spiritual satisfaction of its members. It belittles the "good wor

It feels perverse to speak of a churches success as a business rather than success through the spiritual satisfaction of its members. It belittles the "good word" and treats it as corporate decor.

jamesgeck0 7y ago
Certainly some of the LDS church's evangelistic reach is enabled by business acumen. Their holdings are worth billions on the stock market. From 2012: https://web.archive.org/web/20120713021925/http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-07-10/how-the-mormons-make-money#p1 https://web.archive.org/web/20120713021925/http://www.busine... From 2018: https://kutv.com/news/local/mormonleaks-says-new-documents-link-lds-church-to-companies-worth-over-32-billion https://kutv.com/news/local/mormonleaks-says-new-documents-l...
alistairSH 7y ago
The Vatican owns ~15% of the value listed on Italian stock exchanges and somewhere north of $10 billion (US) in total wealth. That's just the vatican - the largest regional subsidiaries are worth more (Catholic Church Germany is about $25 billion). LDS has somewhere around $65 billion in wealth. International religious organizations are absolutely businesses. Profit may not be their primary purpose, but they have their fingers in all sorts of business-like enterprises - real estate, stocks, etc.
- pigscantfly 7y ago
  Do you have any sources for these numbers? They seem low given the value of works of art and real estate held by the church; I'm just curious what the $10B USD figure includes.
  - ebiester 7y ago
    That seems low given the amount of property they control and their international foothold, along with the amount of time they have had to acquire their wealth.
    - alistairSH 7y ago
      Shame on me... I didn't check the date on the source - the Vatican number was taken from a Time Magazine article from 1965. I came up near the top of the Google results and it never crossed my mind that Time published articles that far back.
- cicero 7y ago
  Regardless of the size of the assets of these organizations, the parent's point is still valid that their success should not be measured in $s. So the Vatican has $10B in wealth, does that mean that they are successfully leading people to heaven? I say these numbers have little to do with what the Vatican exists for. If anyone in the Vatican thinks otherwise, I would say their priorities are off. (I speak about the Vatican rather than the LDS church because I know more about it, being Catholic myself.)
Forbo 7y ago
Probably because the "good word" is to a large extent, in fact, corporate decor: https://read.cesletter.org/ https://read.cesletter.org/

It feels perverse to speak of a churches success as a business rather than success through the spiritual satisfaction of its members. It belittles the "good word" and treats it as corporate decor.

jamesgeck0 7y ago

Certainly some of the LDS church's evangelistic reach is enabled by business acumen. Their holdings are worth billions on the stock market. From 2012: https://web.archive.org/web/20120713021925/http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-07-10/how-the-mormons-make-money#p1 https://web.archive.org/web/20120713021925/http://www.busine... From 2018: https://kutv.com/news/local/mormonleaks-says-new-documents-link-lds-church-to-companies-worth-over-32-billion https://kutv.com/news/local/mormonleaks-says-new-documents-l...

alistairSH 7y ago

The Vatican owns ~15% of the value listed on Italian stock exchanges and somewhere north of $10 billion (US) in total wealth. That's just the vatican - the largest regional subsidiaries are worth more (Catholic Church Germany is about $25 billion). LDS has somewhere around $65 billion in wealth. International religious organizations are absolutely businesses. Profit may not be their primary purpose, but they have their fingers in all sorts of business-like enterprises - real estate, stocks, etc.

pigscantfly 7y ago
Do you have any sources for these numbers? They seem low given the value of works of art and real estate held by the church; I'm just curious what the $10B USD figure includes.
- ebiester 7y ago
  That seems low given the amount of property they control and their international foothold, along with the amount of time they have had to acquire their wealth.
  - alistairSH 7y ago
    Shame on me... I didn't check the date on the source - the Vatican number was taken from a Time Magazine article from 1965. I came up near the top of the Google results and it never crossed my mind that Time published articles that far back.
cicero 7y ago
Regardless of the size of the assets of these organizations, the parent's point is still valid that their success should not be measured in $s. So the Vatican has $10B in wealth, does that mean that they are successfully leading people to heaven? I say these numbers have little to do with what the Vatican exists for. If anyone in the Vatican thinks otherwise, I would say their priorities are off. (I speak about the Vatican rather than the LDS church because I know more about it, being Catholic myself.)

Forbo 7y ago

Probably because the "good word" is to a large extent, in fact, corporate decor: https://read.cesletter.org/ https://read.cesletter.org/