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> That's not true and unfair. I believe you are genuine, but also the information you present is miles from the reality in Germany and Europe, and the state of
by Certhas 7y ago
> That's not true and unfair.
I believe you are genuine, but also the information you present is miles from the reality in Germany and Europe, and the state of research in the field in general.
> Believe it or not, I want to be proven wrong. I want somebody to walk me through what a end-goal for our ideal energy mix is, preferably without casually throwing it that we just need to create a new exotic battery technology.
Until 80% the carbon optimal mix is Gas + Renewables. For the last 20% you need to start producing the Gas from excess energy during times when renewables outstrip demand.
Also, gas is incredibly much better for carbon footprint than coal, so in the short term replacing coal with gas makes a lot of sense.
And again, there are no unproven technologies in this scenario. Everything exists and exists today. It just makes no sense to start generating gas from renewables until you have many periods where renewables outstrip demand.
Finally, again, for economic reasons it starts making sense to do the same (turn excess production into gas) for nuclear as well [2]. It also is obvious that Germany fucked up with getting out of nuclear when they did.
The intermittency issues you claim also don't really exist as such in todays grid. What's your source for that? In Germany the amount of balancing energy used to combat intermittency has been _declining_ for years [1]. They have congestion issues, but that is again a political rather than a technical issue (if you can't get people to accept power lines in their backyards, good luck with building nuclear power plants).
European grid stability has generally been improving with the build out of renewables (and blackouts are ten times more common in the US than in Germany). This is often said to be related to the improved coordination in the European system.
A number of authors have mapped out different aspects of the transition towards 100% systems [3]. But again, we already have 100% systems on islands today. So your claim that no one knows how to build them is manifestly wrong. There are plenty of problems with transitioning or scaling, but there is no fundamental mystery about any of this.
For the 100% scenario the work of Greiner for example explicitly is built around tackling the question of transmission vs storage, taking all sorts of variability into account [4]. You can always quibble with the assumptions, with the level of modeling, etc. But none of this is entirely new. We have had reports maping out the 100% scenarios for years, with a number of different options. (Last relatively excentric one I saw advocated building electrolysis platforms powerd by windfarms offshore and directly transporting gas into the gas system, I would class that as a technological challenge, even if there isn't anything fundamentally unproven about the technology).
And again, look at what happened with solar. Our knowledge of running and building these systems will increase dramatically as we build them. There is no indication to me that we are not capable of doing so _if there was sufficient political will_. And that last part is what's truly hard.
Of course then we still have to face the hard problems: Industry and agriculture....
[1] https://www.next-kraftwerke.de/wp-content/uploads/ausschreibungen-regelenergie-q2-2019.png https://www.next-kraftwerke.de/wp-content/uploads/ausschreib...
[2] https://nworbmot.org/blog/burden-of-proof.html https://nworbmot.org/blog/burden-of-proof.html
[3] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1364032118307913 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S13640...
[4] https://arxiv.org/pdf/1801.05290.pdf https://arxiv.org/pdf/1801.05290.pdf
- macspoofing 7y agoJust a note: I appreciate that you took the effort to post the links you did.
- macspoofing 7y ago>Until 80% the carbon optimal mix is Gas + Renewables. I don't understand what we're arguing about? All I said was that renewables (solar and wind specifically) need natural gas backup. In an ideal world where carbon emissions weren't a problem, that would be a non-issue, but we are trying to completely remove carbon emissions - so how is solar and wind actually helping? >For the last 20% you need to start producing the Gas from excess energy during times when renewables outstrip demand. This is hopeful thinking. The most efficient process for creating syngass is from fossil fuels. Syngas from renewables ... that's not technology that is currently viable, and it may never be viable. The other issue is that you need to greatly overprovision solar and wind infrastructre to generate a huge amount of excess energy to brige the intermittency gaps. I remember seeing some numbers on that, and they are astronomical. >A number of authors have mapped out different aspects of the transition towards 100% systems [3]. The big problem with these estimates is that they use 'biomass' to plug in the gaps that wind and solar have. Do you know what that means? It means burning garbage or using huge swaths of land to grow corn or soy or whatever to burn. That is the technology of the future? And even in that situation Germany can't be emission neutral until 2050 (i.e. never)!! This is the insanity I'm talking about. We're willing to destroy the environment we have to grow crops just to burn (not to feed people, and we still need to do that), just so that we don't use nuclear. Jesus. Why is Germany not following France, and increasing their nuclear infrastructure? Because insanity, that's why. Because of the cult of renewables. >Also, gas is incredibly much better for carbon footprint than coal Maybe. Natural gas is certainly efficient, though efficiency in this case is a little bit of a detriment, as more efficiency means more CO2 emissions. Ironically coal's dirty particulate emissions (the ones that kill humans) are actually good for cooling the planet by blocking or sun's rays. But yeah, overall natural gas is much more efficient and less CO2 is emitted per generated Watt, though the gains may be lost if the pipelines are not properly maintained and there is leakage. The big hope is that natural gas is a bridging fuel, but to what exactly? >But again, we already have 100% systems on islands today. What islands? We're talking about a grid for a modern, developed economy with millions (or hundreds of millions) of people and heavy industry, not some dinky little island. >Of course then we still have to face the hard problems: Industry and agriculture.... Yes. This is why I'm frustred that we're wasting our time with solar and wind and not scaling up our nuclear infrastructre. That's a low hanging fruit.