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"Well looking at where the Microsoft ecosystem is now and where the Apple ecosystem is, I think Apple made the right choice. Apple alone sells more devices runn

"Well looking at where the Microsoft ecosystem is now and where the Apple ecosystem is, I think Apple made the right choice. Apple alone sells more devices running macOS variants than all Windows PC makers combined." This is a fancy way of saying that Apple sells more watches and phones than Microsoft does computers, which is a whole lot less impressive than the disinformation version you wrote above. When I look at the microsoft ecosystem: something like 90% of all computers, nearly every corporation and business in the world, etc, I don't see anything to be ashamed of.

scarface74 7y ago
This is a fancy way of saying that Apple sells more watches and phones than Microsoft does computers, which is a whole lot less impressive than the disinformation version you wrote above How is it “disinformation”? Do you think anyone on HN doesn’t understand the statement to mean what I said for it to mean? I said nothing about the computers MS sells (the Surface line). I said Windows PCs in general. Microsoft sells a lot of Windows licenses to business and consumers but all of the energy from a development and usage standpoint is on the web. I bet most businesses could replace a lot of their computers with Chrome OS boxes and not miss a beat. Apple sells a >$1000 phone labeled for "Professionals" which comes with 32GB of on board memory.... total. When you upcharge high end customers $150 for a $15 stick of NAND, yeah, people are more touchy about 8GB of system file It’s not about the “system file”. It’s also about RAM usage. Lowend Surface laptops come with the same amount of storage as iPads but between using x86 chips that are a lot slower and less energy efficient and the boost of Windows, it’s nowhere near the same experience. No iPhone Pro comes with less than the 64GB of storage. Do you really want to talk about marginal price and marginal cost? A Windows license has no marginal cost.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- oarsinsync 7y ago
  > How is it “disinformation”? Do you think anyone on HN doesn’t understand the statement to mean what I said for it to mean? At least one person[0] didn't understand and publicly stated as much. While iOS was originally spun off from macOS, it's very much it's own system, with there being no ability to run macOS applications on iOS, and vice versa (although the latter is slowly changing with recent macOS releases). Comparing the two is disingenuous at best. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21452862 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21452862 EDIT: And here's at least one more: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21453368 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21453368
  - scarface74 7y ago
    Well actually.., Most iOS app can run on MacOS - the iPhone simulator compiles iOS code natively to x86 and links to an x86 version of the iOS frameworks. Apple also introduced both catalyst and SwiftUI to make porting back and forth easier. And yes “words mean things”. I specifically said “variants.” So if again you want to be pedantic, I could just as easily say that Apple sells more iOS devices than all Windows PC makers combined. Also, if you want to try to exclude iPads from the iOS ecosystem because Apple now calls it “iPadOS”, iPads can still run iPhone apps.
    - computerex 7y ago
      You can't run After effects or do software development on iOS. You can't run PHPStorm or docker or final cut pro. I see the iPad/iOS as being usable for a very small slice of professionals.
      - scarface74 7y ago
        Guess what? Most people aren’t developers nor do they run After Effects. They do however run Office. Photoshop was also just introduced for mobile. Heck most people don’t do anything with their personal computers but “consumption” and even that has been moving to mobile
    - saagarjha 7y ago
      > Most iOS app can run on MacOS - the iPhone simulator compiles iOS code natively to x86 and links to an x86 version of the iOS frameworks. Yeah, except no app developer ships their simulator build to customers to run in the iOS Simulator…
      - scarface74 7y ago
        They are starting to ship Catalyst based apps though....
- computerex 7y ago
  You clearly don't know about Active Directory, Group Policy and the myriad of other services Windows offers for enterprises.
  - scarface74 7y ago
    What part of my post were you addressing? My whole argument is that in the long term, MS’s focus on the Enterprise and backwards compatibility caused them to miss out on all of the next waves of tech industry - including the web and mobile. Even in their crowning achievement - the cloud, they are a distant second to AWS and Amazon always brags that they run more Windows instances in AWS than Microsoft runs on Azure. MS’s revenue is half that of Apple’s and they have lower profits. Heck, last quarter Apple made about the same as Microsoft even if you subtract iPhone revenue.
    - computerex 7y ago
      > My whole argument is that in the long term, MS’s focus on the Enterprise and backwards compatibility caused them to miss out on all of the next waves of tech industry - including the web and mobile. They missed out on mobile for sure, but it's not because of their focus on the enterprise or backwards compatibility, and you'll have a very hard time proving so. Also they haven't missed out on the web either, and neither can you prove that they did. Just because there is a bigger cloud provider doesn't mean that they 'missed out'. And there will be bigger fish to fry, new technologies are coming out every year. Apple and Microsoft are in vastly different spaces. Apple focuses on consumer products, Microsoft makes its money from the enterprise. An Apples to orange comparison is not meaningful.
      - scarface74 7y ago
        You don’t call having to use its biggest rivals browser engine and Bing missing out on the web? As far as mobile, Apple was able to take its much smaller less bloated OS, cut it down to a size that could fit on a device with 128MB of RAM and have for what at the time was a full featured web browser. Did you ever use IE on a Win CE device? And are you forgetting that Microsoft was the dominant consumer operating platform before mobile? MS didn’t have any choice but to retreat to Enterprise. So what “bigger technologies” do you see coming out then mobile? The smart phone already has an 80%+ worldwide penetration rate of adults.

scarface74 7y ago

This is a fancy way of saying that Apple sells more watches and phones than Microsoft does computers, which is a whole lot less impressive than the disinformation version you wrote above How is it “disinformation”? Do you think anyone on HN doesn’t understand the statement to mean what I said for it to mean? I said nothing about the computers MS sells (the Surface line). I said Windows PCs in general. Microsoft sells a lot of Windows licenses to business and consumers but all of the energy from a development and usage standpoint is on the web. I bet most businesses could replace a lot of their computers with Chrome OS boxes and not miss a beat. Apple sells a >$1000 phone labeled for "Professionals" which comes with 32GB of on board memory.... total. When you upcharge high end customers $150 for a $15 stick of NAND, yeah, people are more touchy about 8GB of system file It’s not about the “system file”. It’s also about RAM usage. Lowend Surface laptops come with the same amount of storage as iPads but between using x86 chips that are a lot slower and less energy efficient and the boost of Windows, it’s nowhere near the same experience. No iPhone Pro comes with less than the 64GB of storage. Do you really want to talk about marginal price and marginal cost? A Windows license has no marginal cost.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
oarsinsync 7y ago
> How is it “disinformation”? Do you think anyone on HN doesn’t understand the statement to mean what I said for it to mean? At least one person[0] didn't understand and publicly stated as much. While iOS was originally spun off from macOS, it's very much it's own system, with there being no ability to run macOS applications on iOS, and vice versa (although the latter is slowly changing with recent macOS releases). Comparing the two is disingenuous at best. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21452862 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21452862 EDIT: And here's at least one more: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21453368 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21453368
- scarface74 7y ago
  Well actually.., Most iOS app can run on MacOS - the iPhone simulator compiles iOS code natively to x86 and links to an x86 version of the iOS frameworks. Apple also introduced both catalyst and SwiftUI to make porting back and forth easier. And yes “words mean things”. I specifically said “variants.” So if again you want to be pedantic, I could just as easily say that Apple sells more iOS devices than all Windows PC makers combined. Also, if you want to try to exclude iPads from the iOS ecosystem because Apple now calls it “iPadOS”, iPads can still run iPhone apps.
  - computerex 7y ago
    You can't run After effects or do software development on iOS. You can't run PHPStorm or docker or final cut pro. I see the iPad/iOS as being usable for a very small slice of professionals.
    - scarface74 7y ago
      Guess what? Most people aren’t developers nor do they run After Effects. They do however run Office. Photoshop was also just introduced for mobile. Heck most people don’t do anything with their personal computers but “consumption” and even that has been moving to mobile
  - saagarjha 7y ago
    > Most iOS app can run on MacOS - the iPhone simulator compiles iOS code natively to x86 and links to an x86 version of the iOS frameworks. Yeah, except no app developer ships their simulator build to customers to run in the iOS Simulator…
    - scarface74 7y ago
      They are starting to ship Catalyst based apps though....
computerex 7y ago
You clearly don't know about Active Directory, Group Policy and the myriad of other services Windows offers for enterprises.
- scarface74 7y ago
  What part of my post were you addressing? My whole argument is that in the long term, MS’s focus on the Enterprise and backwards compatibility caused them to miss out on all of the next waves of tech industry - including the web and mobile. Even in their crowning achievement - the cloud, they are a distant second to AWS and Amazon always brags that they run more Windows instances in AWS than Microsoft runs on Azure. MS’s revenue is half that of Apple’s and they have lower profits. Heck, last quarter Apple made about the same as Microsoft even if you subtract iPhone revenue.
  - computerex 7y ago
    > My whole argument is that in the long term, MS’s focus on the Enterprise and backwards compatibility caused them to miss out on all of the next waves of tech industry - including the web and mobile. They missed out on mobile for sure, but it's not because of their focus on the enterprise or backwards compatibility, and you'll have a very hard time proving so. Also they haven't missed out on the web either, and neither can you prove that they did. Just because there is a bigger cloud provider doesn't mean that they 'missed out'. And there will be bigger fish to fry, new technologies are coming out every year. Apple and Microsoft are in vastly different spaces. Apple focuses on consumer products, Microsoft makes its money from the enterprise. An Apples to orange comparison is not meaningful.
    - scarface74 7y ago
      You don’t call having to use its biggest rivals browser engine and Bing missing out on the web? As far as mobile, Apple was able to take its much smaller less bloated OS, cut it down to a size that could fit on a device with 128MB of RAM and have for what at the time was a full featured web browser. Did you ever use IE on a Win CE device? And are you forgetting that Microsoft was the dominant consumer operating platform before mobile? MS didn’t have any choice but to retreat to Enterprise. So what “bigger technologies” do you see coming out then mobile? The smart phone already has an 80%+ worldwide penetration rate of adults.