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No, you guys need to quit the platitudes. You need to do something about your “fixed” meritocratic society where your future is largely determined by your pare

No, you guys need to quit the platitudes. You need to do something about your “fixed” meritocratic society where your future is largely determined by your parents’ wealth. You need tax reform, healthcare, cheaper education. I had a discussion with an American friend recently, he offered that the American society has produced marvels such as Google and Facebook and Tesla and countless others, fair point. Can you imagine a new social media today competing with Facebook? A new search engine? Wanna open a retail online store? AWS will eat you alive. I grew up thinking America was the greatest country on earth, truly. You know who also had some absolutely amazing achievements? The Egyptian pharaohs.

popularwarfare 7y ago
Americais and always has been fantastic place if you're part of the upper 20% and dog shit for everyone else. We just have great propaganda.
- RickJWagner 7y ago
  I totally disagree. I was raised in a family of 8 kids, we didn't have any money. All my siblings and friends have had a good shot at the American dream, most of us have done quite well. I've also lived in several different states. Haven't seen anything even close to 80% dog crap. Not even close.
- Reedx 7y ago
  I mean, imagine telling that to people living in poor countries. Please travel or read about the world to get some perspective. Seriously, if you were born in a country like the U.S. in modern times, you won the birth lottery.
  - drewmol 7y ago
    >Seriously, if you were born in a country like the U.S. in modern times, you won the birth lottery. Agreed. The lottery won is for starting position in a game where participation is not choosen and objective you choose determines position ranking.
  - awestroke 7y ago
    Nah. Winning the lottery is being born in a country with free health care and education. Being born in the US is OK at best.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
- barry-cotter 7y ago
  The Thirteen Colonies were the richest group of states under the British and as the US grew it continued to be land rich and labour poor. Americans were noticeably taller than Europeans until week after WWII. The rest of the world has caught up some but the US is without a doubt in the top ten by GDP per capita though competing with city states and what would be individual states there. Measured by average individual consumption it’s probably number 1. The US may not be a good place to be in the bottom 10%, possibly even the bottom 20% but by standards of living for normal people nowhere else compares.
  - blaser-waffle 7y ago
    > The US may not be a good place to be in the bottom 10%, possibly even the bottom 20% but by standards of living for normal people nowhere else compares. Arguably, not even the bottom 50%. Even a minor medical issue can tank middle-class families. OTOH, you're in the top 30% of the bell curve there is nowhere else better than the US.
xupybd 7y ago
Non American here. They seem to be the greatest country on earth. They have a big problem with the gap between the rich and the poor but have huge upward mobility. The education system is too expensive and a bit of a scam but does that cause the problems people think it does. Can you make it in the US without a degree?
- throwaway936482 7y ago
  Social mobility in the USA is actually much lower than in other developed countries.
  - xupybd 7y ago
    It's not the best in the USA but I understand it's not terrible. https://www.oecd.org/centrodemexico/medios/44582910.pdf https://www.oecd.org/centrodemexico/medios/44582910.pdf It's also incredibly complex so perhaps it was a silly thing for me to comment on as I don't think it's that easy to define or measure.
    - redorb 7y ago
      upward mobility doesn't scale well. USA is doing epic for the scale on the upward mobility. If you were born here or get to become a citizen you've won a lottery compared to the bottom 50% of the world. To claim much worse and to be a US citizen is to say you've 'earned winning the lottery' .. Not to build up the US or put down any other country just the way it is imo
    - thundergolfer 7y ago
      They do measure it though, and the best measurements show that the USA does not compare favourably to other developed nations at all. I think the line commentators tend to use is “the American Dream is alive and well, in Denmark”
  - barry-cotter 7y ago
    Social mobility is basically invariant across societies, with a heritability of about 0.7 according to Gregory Clark’s research (A Farewell to Alms, The Son Also Rises, the upcoming For Whom the Bell Curve Tolls). The difference is explained by the number of generations covered.
jumpman500 7y ago
> No, you guys need to quit the platitudes. Uh-huh > You need to do something about your “fixed” meritocratic society where your future is largely determined by your parents’ wealth. > You need tax reform, healthcare, cheaper education. Please continue your nuanced argument with a straw-man.

popularwarfare 7y ago

Americais and always has been fantastic place if you're part of the upper 20% and dog shit for everyone else. We just have great propaganda.

RickJWagner 7y ago
I totally disagree. I was raised in a family of 8 kids, we didn't have any money. All my siblings and friends have had a good shot at the American dream, most of us have done quite well. I've also lived in several different states. Haven't seen anything even close to 80% dog crap. Not even close.
Reedx 7y ago
I mean, imagine telling that to people living in poor countries. Please travel or read about the world to get some perspective. Seriously, if you were born in a country like the U.S. in modern times, you won the birth lottery.
- drewmol 7y ago
  >Seriously, if you were born in a country like the U.S. in modern times, you won the birth lottery. Agreed. The lottery won is for starting position in a game where participation is not choosen and objective you choose determines position ranking.
- awestroke 7y ago
  Nah. Winning the lottery is being born in a country with free health care and education. Being born in the US is OK at best.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
barry-cotter 7y ago
The Thirteen Colonies were the richest group of states under the British and as the US grew it continued to be land rich and labour poor. Americans were noticeably taller than Europeans until week after WWII. The rest of the world has caught up some but the US is without a doubt in the top ten by GDP per capita though competing with city states and what would be individual states there. Measured by average individual consumption it’s probably number 1. The US may not be a good place to be in the bottom 10%, possibly even the bottom 20% but by standards of living for normal people nowhere else compares.
- blaser-waffle 7y ago
  > The US may not be a good place to be in the bottom 10%, possibly even the bottom 20% but by standards of living for normal people nowhere else compares. Arguably, not even the bottom 50%. Even a minor medical issue can tank middle-class families. OTOH, you're in the top 30% of the bell curve there is nowhere else better than the US.

xupybd 7y ago

Non American here. They seem to be the greatest country on earth. They have a big problem with the gap between the rich and the poor but have huge upward mobility. The education system is too expensive and a bit of a scam but does that cause the problems people think it does. Can you make it in the US without a degree?

throwaway936482 7y ago
Social mobility in the USA is actually much lower than in other developed countries.
- xupybd 7y ago
  It's not the best in the USA but I understand it's not terrible. https://www.oecd.org/centrodemexico/medios/44582910.pdf https://www.oecd.org/centrodemexico/medios/44582910.pdf It's also incredibly complex so perhaps it was a silly thing for me to comment on as I don't think it's that easy to define or measure.
  - redorb 7y ago
    upward mobility doesn't scale well. USA is doing epic for the scale on the upward mobility. If you were born here or get to become a citizen you've won a lottery compared to the bottom 50% of the world. To claim much worse and to be a US citizen is to say you've 'earned winning the lottery' .. Not to build up the US or put down any other country just the way it is imo
  - thundergolfer 7y ago
    They do measure it though, and the best measurements show that the USA does not compare favourably to other developed nations at all. I think the line commentators tend to use is “the American Dream is alive and well, in Denmark”
- barry-cotter 7y ago
  Social mobility is basically invariant across societies, with a heritability of about 0.7 according to Gregory Clark’s research (A Farewell to Alms, The Son Also Rises, the upcoming For Whom the Bell Curve Tolls). The difference is explained by the number of generations covered.

jumpman500 7y ago

> No, you guys need to quit the platitudes. Uh-huh > You need to do something about your “fixed” meritocratic society where your future is largely determined by your parents’ wealth. > You need tax reform, healthcare, cheaper education. Please continue your nuanced argument with a straw-man.