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The thing with tech companies is their desire for most of their employees to be in-house. Causing a mass of people to arrive at a location that previously did

by KoenDG 7y ago

The thing with tech companies is their desire for most of their employees to be in-house. Causing a mass of people to arrive at a location that previously did not have that. Over time, of course. People who, due to the nature of their job and their employer, earn way more money than the average working person. And when 10 people like this go for the 1 available house on the market, guess what happens? The price of the house goes up. Up to a point where only 1 of the bidder is willing to pay that price. Or rent. Notice that I said "willing to pay" as opposed to "what that person can afford". Supply and Demand is nice in theory, but really, pricing is more a game of "ask the maximum amount you can get away with". And of course, owners of property in the same region can't let their property sit at a value much lower than the property around them. If the property around them can go for a certain amount, then so can they. And this process repeats unendingly. Making it impossible for people with non-tech jobs to get affordable housing. And if not for the big tech company, it never would have happened. So yeah, it is 100% correct to put the blame on tech companies. If not for them, this would not have occured in the first place.

lkbm 7y ago
> The thing with tech companies is their desire for most of their employees to be in-house. > Causing a mass of people to arrive at a location that previously did not have that. Do you think this is more true of tech than other industries?
- snarkypixel 7y ago
  Aren't software engineers in the Bay Area paid much more than other industries?
  - kyshoc 7y ago
    Are software engineers in the Bay Area required to be onsite much more than other industries?
bdcravens 7y ago
> The thing with tech companies is their desire for most of their employees to be in-house. This is true of almost every company. I would say that tech companies have a higher % of remote employees than most; our frustration is only that it can be higher.
cycrutchfield 7y ago
>Supply and Demand is nice in theory, but really, pricing is more a game of "ask the maximum amount you can get away with". Why do you think that what you are describing is not precisely "supply and demand"?
solidsnack9000 7y ago
What is unique to California is not the success or wealth of the ascendant industry, but the incredibly poor policy response. There are many cities in the world in a similar or even more severe situation than California cities, with regards to successful industries that pay high salaries. Bankers and traders still make more money than software engineers.
- mixmastamyk 7y ago
  Do folks successfully fight housing in NYC?
  - solidsnack9000 7y ago
    There is so much housing in NYC.
aclimatt 7y ago
But this is what almost every other economy around the world dreams about -- a large amount of new highly-paid workers increasing the tax base and dumping buckets of money into the economy. Municipality after municipality has tried to create such an environment (Amazon HQ2 being a great example), and in almost all other municipalities, developers would absolutely jump at the opportunity to build housing and other infrastructure to accommodate this new industry (and profit). And in most other locations with land and/or lax building policies, this isn't a problem. This is a feature. But in California (and NYC to some extent too, back to the HQ2 example), developers can't soak up the demand. There's no land left, and upzoning isn't an option. So yes, it IS California's fault. The money is there -- the article being the most absurd example of it, but the land use policies aren't. Free up the land, let people build up, and you'll have 5x the housing in a matter of years. California can't even build an In-N-Out, let alone multi-story dense housing. https://reason.com/2019/11/01/california-nimbys-sue-to-stop-in-n-out-burger-from-coming-to-their-town/ https://reason.com/2019/11/01/california-nimbys-sue-to-stop-...
jmknoll 7y ago
Apple has been around for 30 years. It’s not like they appeared overnight with 20k employees looking for housing. The city has had a literal generation to respond to housing pressure. How much housing has been built in Beijing, or even in New York, over that same time period?
hedvig 7y ago
> Supply and Demand is nice in theory, but really, pricing is more a game of "ask the maximum amount you can get away with". Most relevant point, well said. Is there any academic term for this?
- mixmastamyk 7y ago
  Sounds like “supply and demand.” U+1F602
dragonwriter 7y ago
> Supply and Demand is nice in theory, but really, pricing is more a game of "ask the maximum amount you can get away with". That's exactly what the theory of supply and demand is premised on.
laut 7y ago
Supply of housing can increase if it makes sense to build housing. Zoning and other regulation can make it impossible, risky or unprofitable to build housing.

by KoenDG 7y ago

lkbm 7y ago

> The thing with tech companies is their desire for most of their employees to be in-house. > Causing a mass of people to arrive at a location that previously did not have that. Do you think this is more true of tech than other industries?

snarkypixel 7y ago
Aren't software engineers in the Bay Area paid much more than other industries?
- kyshoc 7y ago
  Are software engineers in the Bay Area required to be onsite much more than other industries?

bdcravens 7y ago

> The thing with tech companies is their desire for most of their employees to be in-house. This is true of almost every company. I would say that tech companies have a higher % of remote employees than most; our frustration is only that it can be higher.

cycrutchfield 7y ago

>Supply and Demand is nice in theory, but really, pricing is more a game of "ask the maximum amount you can get away with". Why do you think that what you are describing is not precisely "supply and demand"?

solidsnack9000 7y ago

What is unique to California is not the success or wealth of the ascendant industry, but the incredibly poor policy response. There are many cities in the world in a similar or even more severe situation than California cities, with regards to successful industries that pay high salaries. Bankers and traders still make more money than software engineers.

mixmastamyk 7y ago
Do folks successfully fight housing in NYC?
- solidsnack9000 7y ago
  There is so much housing in NYC.

aclimatt 7y ago

But this is what almost every other economy around the world dreams about -- a large amount of new highly-paid workers increasing the tax base and dumping buckets of money into the economy. Municipality after municipality has tried to create such an environment (Amazon HQ2 being a great example), and in almost all other municipalities, developers would absolutely jump at the opportunity to build housing and other infrastructure to accommodate this new industry (and profit). And in most other locations with land and/or lax building policies, this isn't a problem. This is a feature. But in California (and NYC to some extent too, back to the HQ2 example), developers can't soak up the demand. There's no land left, and upzoning isn't an option. So yes, it IS California's fault. The money is there -- the article being the most absurd example of it, but the land use policies aren't. Free up the land, let people build up, and you'll have 5x the housing in a matter of years. California can't even build an In-N-Out, let alone multi-story dense housing. https://reason.com/2019/11/01/california-nimbys-sue-to-stop-in-n-out-burger-from-coming-to-their-town/ https://reason.com/2019/11/01/california-nimbys-sue-to-stop-...

jmknoll 7y ago

Apple has been around for 30 years. It’s not like they appeared overnight with 20k employees looking for housing. The city has had a literal generation to respond to housing pressure. How much housing has been built in Beijing, or even in New York, over that same time period?

hedvig 7y ago

> Supply and Demand is nice in theory, but really, pricing is more a game of "ask the maximum amount you can get away with". Most relevant point, well said. Is there any academic term for this?

mixmastamyk 7y ago
Sounds like “supply and demand.” U+1F602

dragonwriter 7y ago

> Supply and Demand is nice in theory, but really, pricing is more a game of "ask the maximum amount you can get away with". That's exactly what the theory of supply and demand is premised on.

laut 7y ago

Supply of housing can increase if it makes sense to build housing. Zoning and other regulation can make it impossible, risky or unprofitable to build housing.