7 ms·

‘Silicon Valley,’ S6E2 – a billion dollars to violate your principles

68 points by mgreg 7y ago

brenden2 7y ago
I haven't watched the episode, but I've been in a situation where I had to make the choice between taking the high road or getting money. For better or worse I've always made the choice to take the high road, and I've never regretted it. Money only goes so far, and beyond a certain point it just doesn't matter if you make a little more. I'd rather keep my dignity and contribute positively to the world.
- turc1656 7y ago
  Also, my own life observations have told me that whenever people have chosen the money there's always some unforeseen attachment. It's never just the money. There's always at least one string attached that they either didn't anticipate or ignored the severity of.
  - saalweachter 7y ago
    Or when people choose the promise of money over principles and get neither, as something happens to take away the promise, either being outright cheated or eg stock options becoming worthless when the company implodes.
- cik 7y ago
  Exactly. You have to live with yourself forever. I'd much rather work to being the person I want to be, than letting someone else dictate who I am.
- OnlineGladiator 7y ago
  As much as I agree with you, the harsh reality is that the people who do choose the money end up having disproportionate influence over how the world operates. Money buys power. It's sort of like finding honesty in politics. The reason politicians are dishonest is because it works. It's just a bug in society, I guess.
  - ht85 7y ago
    Maybe the bug is wishful thinking. Legitimizing things we view as positive even though rationally you can see why they would never happen. It's a nice bug. If enough people were guilty of having that mindset, maybe those nice things could make sense?
    - OnlineGladiator 7y ago
      The bug is that in order to make a difference, you have to have power. But in order to have power, you have to compromise your character. And thus, you compromise your ability to make a difference. Obviously this is a wildly simplistic generalization, but it is a very powerful rule of thumb.
      - dromen 7y ago
        Sounds like learned helplessness to me. The only sensible inner practice I've found is refinement of character. It works both when practiced publicly and when practiced privately. And aspects of character can be built, sustained and recycled. Like anything.
        OnlineGladiator 7y ago
        Once you're a billionaire, what incentive do you have to better yourself when you can just pay to change the world around you?
  - garmaine 7y ago
    Counterpoint: I've taken the high road when I had the chance to compromise my principles and (maybe!) make a lot of money. And I ended up with a decent amount of money as a result. People with values look for and value other people with values, so it did open doors. Now I'm not rolling in cash as a result, but I'm quite comfortable. And I ended up much better than some of the cut throat people involved in that enterprise who lost the game of thrones and ended up with nothing.
- eanzenberg 7y ago
  Alternatively, earning as much money as possible and donating most of it will probably leave a greater positive impact than using your skills directly to impact the greater good, unless your skills are correctly aligned.
  - ryandrake 7y ago
    The Bill Gates effect. He's all Mr. Philanthropy now, and doing great work, but only thanks to the 90's-2000's ethically questionable shenanigans of Microsoft.
    - devnonymous 7y ago
      Even his philanthropy (or at least that of the Gates foundation) is ethically questionable [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_%26_Melinda_Gates_Foundation#Criticisms_and_reforms https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_%26_Melinda_Gates_Foundat... ... And that's just barely scratching the surface. Honest curiosity will lead you to understanding how the megalomaniac in Bill is still alive and well.
      - OnlineGladiator 7y ago
        I am a believer in your overall point that people don't change easily, but the criticism against the Gates Foundation is pretty thin considering how long it's been around and how much money they've spent. > Honest curiosity will lead you to understanding how the megalomaniac in Bill is still alive and well. I'll bite. Where is your evidence of Bill Gates being an egomaniac in recent history? The 3 points made in your link are underwhelming.
        devnonymous 7y ago
        Gates on Making the world’s invisible people, visible: https://www.gatesnotes.com/Development/Heroes-in-the-Field-Nandan-Nilekani Reality: https://jsis.washington.edu/news/the-aadhaar-card-cybersecurity-issues-with-indias-biometric-experiment/ https://www.epw.in/engage/article/aadhaar-failures-food-services-welfare And in general - https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=Aadhaar+problems The basic underlying idea being pushing surveillance tech under the guise of public welfare. Gates on Climate change: https://www.gatesnotes.com/Search?search=climate Reality: https://grist.org/climate-energy/the-gates-foundations-hypocritical-investments/ Gates on medical assistance: https://www.gatesnotes.com/Search?search=medication Reality: https://www.pambazuka.org/governance/another-missionary-africa-bill-gates-myth https://www.vox.com/2015/6/10/8760199/ https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/gates-foundation-accused-of-dangerously-skewing-aid-priorities-by-promoting-big-business-a6822036.html https://www.nonprofitpro.com/article/report-slams-gates-foundation-for-self-serving-agenda-corporate-ties/ ...and this is just with simple random google searches like 'gates foundation criticism' . There is a rabbit hole you can fall through if you're so inclined but the core idea of a megalomaniac comes through fairly quickly.
- whalesalad 7y ago
  How much money are we talking here because that makes a pretty substantial difference.
  - ergothus 7y ago
    Right? Story time: My wife went back to college in her early thirties. During one class, the grad student was trying to get the class to really question their moral certitude. "Would your loved one cheat on you a million dollars?" My wife, however, was positive. When pressed, she said "Oh, he's done the math. I have nothing to worry about for less than 5 million. After that, sure, who knows, but until then...". This was not the answer they expected. The students were horrified and the instructor was confused. To rephrase your point (and the problem): Money can't buy happiness, but it can provide a lot of security against UNHAPPINESS. Depending on where I'm at, security-wise, different money amounts mean different things. Even if I'm very secure in all my personal needs, offer me a billion dollars and there's a lot of options at the top of Maslov's hierarchy. If I recall the math right, I could give a family $10,000/day, every day, for 216 years. Add in the effects of interest (and offset for inflation), and it's probably an infinite ability. That's a lot of soul-soothing. I too have made choices, at far less than the $1billion (or 1 million) level. And.... I'm still torn. I'm glad my current job isn't one I'm ashamed of, but those past jobs provided a lot of security for my wife and I. We have physical and mental health specialists able to attend to our needs. I will disagree with anyone that says money/security is all that matters, but I can't say the choice is easy or clear.
- rexpop 7y ago
  > For better or worse I've always made the choice to take the high road, and I've never regretted it. How high of a road do you think you've really taken? This whole industry is super-connected to some unacceptable atrocities, from plastic pollution to the torture-at-scale perpetrated by the military industrial complex. You may feel as though your hands are clean, but what about your customers and suppliers? How far down/up the dependency chain are you from materially supporting real suffering? There are a lot of folks on high horses in this industry, but unless you're dead set against the bulk of it, you're colluding in some really, really nasty–not to mention undignified–exploitation, violence, and depravity.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
smaili 7y ago
Anyone know why the show is ending? It's one of the few that I genuinely enjoy each season and am very disappointed to see this year to be the finale.
- RandallBrown 7y ago
  It sounds like they found a good way to end it, so they decided to do that instead of just stringing it along. https://www.slashfilm.com/why-silicon-valley-is-ending/ https://www.slashfilm.com/why-silicon-valley-is-ending/
- save_ferris 7y ago
  It started getting pretty formulaic, and some of the characters changed in ways that made no sense, Richard being the main one. Early on, he wasn't OK with paid users padding the usage metrics for Pied Piper and completely ruined Bachman's fundraising, but then like 2 seasons later he's totally OK installing software on everyone's phones at a tech conference? Totally inconsistent character development. TJ Miller leaving was another huge setback for them, he really was the perfect foil for all of the characters around him.
  - _chompsky 7y ago
    I personally believe that having TJ Miller on the cast after all of the disciplinary stuff he got himself into (calling the bomb hoax on the AMTRAK train / the person whose friend is called "Cunty" revealing that he was a prick to everyone on the set) would have drawn a lot of smack towards the production team. Miller just made things horrible for himself.
    - infinitezest 7y ago
      Agreed but I also have to agree with GP; Bachman was a really entertaining part of the show and I've personally had a hard time feeling as invested in it with him gone.
- Mathnerd314 7y ago
  “We just sat down this season and started writing and just felt it out and just decided we had a really good way to go out this season,” Judge said. “So that was that” (https://www.slashfilm.com/why-silicon-valley-is-ending/ https://www.slashfilm.com/why-silicon-valley-is-ending/) And then he has some movie ideas: https://www.indiewire.com/2019/03/silicon-valley-ending-mike-judge-hbo-1202049734/ https://www.indiewire.com/2019/03/silicon-valley-ending-mike...
Mathnerd314 7y ago
HBO clip from the episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xabrjq14pnw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xabrjq14pnw
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
minimaxir 7y ago
As the article notes, it's weird Silicon Valley went with a Chilean VC instead of a more direct Saudi VC/Softbank analogue. Would that have been too on the nose?
- Apocryphon 7y ago
  Perhaps they didn't have the right casting for such a character, and they would have to finesse the writing to avoid lazy tropes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reel_Bad_Arabs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reel_Bad_Arabs That said, this show once again unintentionally predicted current event relevance with its creative choices: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/03/world/americas/chile-protests.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/03/world/americas/chile-prot...
- ninth_ant 7y ago
  Usually on their show they derive much of their humour from being so “on the nose” where many folks don’t realize the farce on-screen actually happened in real life. Using Saudis would have been very much part of their style.
- semiotagonal 7y ago
  There's probably a pretty high risk of some future event involving the Saudis being something they wouldn't want to incorporate in their show.
YeGoblynQueenne 7y ago
• Items surrounding Gilfoyle’s workstation include “Shadowrun” and “Magic the Gathering: Ravnica” from the Dungeons & Dragons world. Actually, Shadowrun is an RPG set in a cyberpunk world completely unrelated to D&D and Magic is a card game set in a fantasy universe also completely unrelated to D&D (though Magic and D&D have the same publisher). Sorry, I just had to say that.
- uses 7y ago
  Well, without having seen the episode, it's possible that the Ravnica piece was this product, which muddies the waters a bit https://dnd.wizards.com/products/tabletop-games/rpg-products/guildmasters-guide-ravnica https://dnd.wizards.com/products/tabletop-games/rpg-products...
- enkid 7y ago
  Shadowrun is fantasy cyberpunk, not steam punk.
  - YeGoblynQueenne 7y ago
    Oops, sorry. My bad - correcting. Thanks.
buboard 7y ago
I 'll flag this SPOILERS SPOILERS people!
- minimaxir 7y ago
  The day after is a generally-accepted threshold for free discussion of TV shows.
  - buboard 7y ago
    I will binge on the season only after it's finished.
gotrythis 7y ago
I once pitched at an investor meeting, and the only bite I had, offered me all the money I wanted, at great terms. He had a "warehouse of Chinese developers" and would simply throw 10 developers at it working on the exact same thing, and use the best code of the 10. That was his pitch. Needless to say, I said no.
cbanek 7y ago
More interesting to me was the Gilfoyle subplot of trying to get him to catch up on his work and sticking him with a team. That was just sheer brilliance, and having seen similar things come out in real job life, only made it more hilarious.
bransonf 7y ago
I thought this was a homage to Yahoo offering Zuckerberg 1 billion for Facebook early on. To which he replied something along the lines of “I may never have an idea this good ever again”

68 points by mgreg 7y ago

I haven't watched the episode, but I've been in a situation where I had to make the choice between taking the high road or getting money. For better or worse I've always made the choice to take the high road, and I've never regretted it. Money only goes so far, and beyond a certain point it just doesn't matter if you make a little more. I'd rather keep my dignity and contribute positively to the world.

turc1656 7y ago
Also, my own life observations have told me that whenever people have chosen the money there's always some unforeseen attachment. It's never just the money. There's always at least one string attached that they either didn't anticipate or ignored the severity of.
- saalweachter 7y ago
  Or when people choose the promise of money over principles and get neither, as something happens to take away the promise, either being outright cheated or eg stock options becoming worthless when the company implodes.
cik 7y ago
Exactly. You have to live with yourself forever. I'd much rather work to being the person I want to be, than letting someone else dictate who I am.
OnlineGladiator 7y ago
As much as I agree with you, the harsh reality is that the people who do choose the money end up having disproportionate influence over how the world operates. Money buys power. It's sort of like finding honesty in politics. The reason politicians are dishonest is because it works. It's just a bug in society, I guess.
- ht85 7y ago
  Maybe the bug is wishful thinking. Legitimizing things we view as positive even though rationally you can see why they would never happen. It's a nice bug. If enough people were guilty of having that mindset, maybe those nice things could make sense?
  - OnlineGladiator 7y ago
    The bug is that in order to make a difference, you have to have power. But in order to have power, you have to compromise your character. And thus, you compromise your ability to make a difference. Obviously this is a wildly simplistic generalization, but it is a very powerful rule of thumb.
    - dromen 7y ago
      Sounds like learned helplessness to me. The only sensible inner practice I've found is refinement of character. It works both when practiced publicly and when practiced privately. And aspects of character can be built, sustained and recycled. Like anything.
      - OnlineGladiator 7y ago
        Once you're a billionaire, what incentive do you have to better yourself when you can just pay to change the world around you?
- garmaine 7y ago
  Counterpoint: I've taken the high road when I had the chance to compromise my principles and (maybe!) make a lot of money. And I ended up with a decent amount of money as a result. People with values look for and value other people with values, so it did open doors. Now I'm not rolling in cash as a result, but I'm quite comfortable. And I ended up much better than some of the cut throat people involved in that enterprise who lost the game of thrones and ended up with nothing.
eanzenberg 7y ago
Alternatively, earning as much money as possible and donating most of it will probably leave a greater positive impact than using your skills directly to impact the greater good, unless your skills are correctly aligned.
- ryandrake 7y ago
  The Bill Gates effect. He's all Mr. Philanthropy now, and doing great work, but only thanks to the 90's-2000's ethically questionable shenanigans of Microsoft.
  - devnonymous 7y ago
    Even his philanthropy (or at least that of the Gates foundation) is ethically questionable [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_%26_Melinda_Gates_Foundation#Criticisms_and_reforms https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_%26_Melinda_Gates_Foundat... ... And that's just barely scratching the surface. Honest curiosity will lead you to understanding how the megalomaniac in Bill is still alive and well.
    - OnlineGladiator 7y ago
      I am a believer in your overall point that people don't change easily, but the criticism against the Gates Foundation is pretty thin considering how long it's been around and how much money they've spent. > Honest curiosity will lead you to understanding how the megalomaniac in Bill is still alive and well. I'll bite. Where is your evidence of Bill Gates being an egomaniac in recent history? The 3 points made in your link are underwhelming.
      - devnonymous 7y ago
        Gates on Making the world’s invisible people, visible: https://www.gatesnotes.com/Development/Heroes-in-the-Field-Nandan-Nilekani Reality: https://jsis.washington.edu/news/the-aadhaar-card-cybersecurity-issues-with-indias-biometric-experiment/ https://www.epw.in/engage/article/aadhaar-failures-food-services-welfare And in general - https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=Aadhaar+problems The basic underlying idea being pushing surveillance tech under the guise of public welfare. Gates on Climate change: https://www.gatesnotes.com/Search?search=climate Reality: https://grist.org/climate-energy/the-gates-foundations-hypocritical-investments/ Gates on medical assistance: https://www.gatesnotes.com/Search?search=medication Reality: https://www.pambazuka.org/governance/another-missionary-africa-bill-gates-myth https://www.vox.com/2015/6/10/8760199/ https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/gates-foundation-accused-of-dangerously-skewing-aid-priorities-by-promoting-big-business-a6822036.html https://www.nonprofitpro.com/article/report-slams-gates-foundation-for-self-serving-agenda-corporate-ties/ ...and this is just with simple random google searches like 'gates foundation criticism' . There is a rabbit hole you can fall through if you're so inclined but the core idea of a megalomaniac comes through fairly quickly.
whalesalad 7y ago
How much money are we talking here because that makes a pretty substantial difference.
- ergothus 7y ago
  Right? Story time: My wife went back to college in her early thirties. During one class, the grad student was trying to get the class to really question their moral certitude. "Would your loved one cheat on you a million dollars?" My wife, however, was positive. When pressed, she said "Oh, he's done the math. I have nothing to worry about for less than 5 million. After that, sure, who knows, but until then...". This was not the answer they expected. The students were horrified and the instructor was confused. To rephrase your point (and the problem): Money can't buy happiness, but it can provide a lot of security against UNHAPPINESS. Depending on where I'm at, security-wise, different money amounts mean different things. Even if I'm very secure in all my personal needs, offer me a billion dollars and there's a lot of options at the top of Maslov's hierarchy. If I recall the math right, I could give a family $10,000/day, every day, for 216 years. Add in the effects of interest (and offset for inflation), and it's probably an infinite ability. That's a lot of soul-soothing. I too have made choices, at far less than the $1billion (or 1 million) level. And.... I'm still torn. I'm glad my current job isn't one I'm ashamed of, but those past jobs provided a lot of security for my wife and I. We have physical and mental health specialists able to attend to our needs. I will disagree with anyone that says money/security is all that matters, but I can't say the choice is easy or clear.
rexpop 7y ago
> For better or worse I've always made the choice to take the high road, and I've never regretted it. How high of a road do you think you've really taken? This whole industry is super-connected to some unacceptable atrocities, from plastic pollution to the torture-at-scale perpetrated by the military industrial complex. You may feel as though your hands are clean, but what about your customers and suppliers? How far down/up the dependency chain are you from materially supporting real suffering? There are a lot of folks on high horses in this industry, but unless you're dead set against the bulk of it, you're colluding in some really, really nasty–not to mention undignified–exploitation, violence, and depravity.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

smaili 7y ago

Anyone know why the show is ending? It's one of the few that I genuinely enjoy each season and am very disappointed to see this year to be the finale.

RandallBrown 7y ago
It sounds like they found a good way to end it, so they decided to do that instead of just stringing it along. https://www.slashfilm.com/why-silicon-valley-is-ending/ https://www.slashfilm.com/why-silicon-valley-is-ending/
save_ferris 7y ago
It started getting pretty formulaic, and some of the characters changed in ways that made no sense, Richard being the main one. Early on, he wasn't OK with paid users padding the usage metrics for Pied Piper and completely ruined Bachman's fundraising, but then like 2 seasons later he's totally OK installing software on everyone's phones at a tech conference? Totally inconsistent character development. TJ Miller leaving was another huge setback for them, he really was the perfect foil for all of the characters around him.
- _chompsky 7y ago
  I personally believe that having TJ Miller on the cast after all of the disciplinary stuff he got himself into (calling the bomb hoax on the AMTRAK train / the person whose friend is called "Cunty" revealing that he was a prick to everyone on the set) would have drawn a lot of smack towards the production team. Miller just made things horrible for himself.
  - infinitezest 7y ago
    Agreed but I also have to agree with GP; Bachman was a really entertaining part of the show and I've personally had a hard time feeling as invested in it with him gone.
Mathnerd314 7y ago
“We just sat down this season and started writing and just felt it out and just decided we had a really good way to go out this season,” Judge said. “So that was that” (https://www.slashfilm.com/why-silicon-valley-is-ending/ https://www.slashfilm.com/why-silicon-valley-is-ending/) And then he has some movie ideas: https://www.indiewire.com/2019/03/silicon-valley-ending-mike-judge-hbo-1202049734/ https://www.indiewire.com/2019/03/silicon-valley-ending-mike...

Mathnerd314 7y ago

HBO clip from the episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xabrjq14pnw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xabrjq14pnw

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

minimaxir 7y ago

As the article notes, it's weird Silicon Valley went with a Chilean VC instead of a more direct Saudi VC/Softbank analogue. Would that have been too on the nose?

Apocryphon 7y ago
Perhaps they didn't have the right casting for such a character, and they would have to finesse the writing to avoid lazy tropes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reel_Bad_Arabs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reel_Bad_Arabs That said, this show once again unintentionally predicted current event relevance with its creative choices: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/03/world/americas/chile-protests.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/03/world/americas/chile-prot...
ninth_ant 7y ago
Usually on their show they derive much of their humour from being so “on the nose” where many folks don’t realize the farce on-screen actually happened in real life. Using Saudis would have been very much part of their style.
semiotagonal 7y ago
There's probably a pretty high risk of some future event involving the Saudis being something they wouldn't want to incorporate in their show.

YeGoblynQueenne 7y ago

• Items surrounding Gilfoyle’s workstation include “Shadowrun” and “Magic the Gathering: Ravnica” from the Dungeons & Dragons world. Actually, Shadowrun is an RPG set in a cyberpunk world completely unrelated to D&D and Magic is a card game set in a fantasy universe also completely unrelated to D&D (though Magic and D&D have the same publisher). Sorry, I just had to say that.

uses 7y ago
Well, without having seen the episode, it's possible that the Ravnica piece was this product, which muddies the waters a bit https://dnd.wizards.com/products/tabletop-games/rpg-products/guildmasters-guide-ravnica https://dnd.wizards.com/products/tabletop-games/rpg-products...
enkid 7y ago
Shadowrun is fantasy cyberpunk, not steam punk.
- YeGoblynQueenne 7y ago
  Oops, sorry. My bad - correcting. Thanks.

buboard 7y ago

I 'll flag this SPOILERS SPOILERS people!

minimaxir 7y ago
The day after is a generally-accepted threshold for free discussion of TV shows.
- buboard 7y ago
  I will binge on the season only after it's finished.

gotrythis 7y ago

I once pitched at an investor meeting, and the only bite I had, offered me all the money I wanted, at great terms. He had a "warehouse of Chinese developers" and would simply throw 10 developers at it working on the exact same thing, and use the best code of the 10. That was his pitch. Needless to say, I said no.

cbanek 7y ago

More interesting to me was the Gilfoyle subplot of trying to get him to catch up on his work and sticking him with a team. That was just sheer brilliance, and having seen similar things come out in real job life, only made it more hilarious.

bransonf 7y ago

I thought this was a homage to Yahoo offering Zuckerberg 1 billion for Facebook early on. To which he replied something along the lines of “I may never have an idea this good ever again”