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> “For them it was just work and that’s it.” Is it? If someone's job is spewing cleverly provocative, disruptive, toxic, and intentionally negative messages al

> “For them it was just work and that’s it.” Is it? If someone's job is spewing cleverly provocative, disruptive, toxic, and intentionally negative messages all day ... does that edgy skill and behaviour not leak into their home or personal life? I understand, these workers need jobs and I'm sure some get quite proficient at trolling. But my gut says there will be personal side effects from reinforcing and working your brain and interactions like this all day. :-(

rexpop 7y ago
Yeah, it's easy to profess that it's "just a job," but one carries one's work into one's private life, and ideological discourse. It's well-understood by Marxists how the mode of production determines the cultural superstructure[1] (and vice-versa). 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_and_superstructure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_and_superstructure
- mieseratte 7y ago
  > It's well-understood by Marxists how the mode of production determines the cultural superstructure[1] (and vice-versa). It's not "understood," it's a sociological theory. Hardly hard science.
  - zajd 7y ago
    Who said anything about hard science? Just because something is well-understood by a group of people doesn't mean it has to have some sort of scientific basis to have any validity.
    - kortilla 7y ago
      Well at that point, who gives a shit? It offers no predictive capability like real models. Might as well talk about how it’s well understood by the Scientology community that it’s indicative of a required audit.
      - zajd 7y ago
        People who believe it give a shit. Same with any economic/political/social framework where there is no way to do "hard" science. Marxist economic frameworks are no different from the alternative economic frameworks our own leaders use to make decisions. Regardless, there are plenty of predictions that Marx/Marxists made over a hundred years ago that have stood up under scrutiny (and plenty others that haven't), there's a reason the economist is printing articles like this: https://www.economist.com/britain/2017/05/11/labour-is-right-karl-marx-has-a-lot-to-teach-todays-politicians https://www.economist.com/britain/2017/05/11/labour-is-right... I personally don't believe economics is a "hard science", but I still see the value in exploring the ideas and judging different theories on their own merit, even if we can't do double-blind studies to "prove" anything.
tnolet 7y ago
With the risk of pulling a Godwin, the “It’s just a job, so any ethics, morals or generally doing the right thing don’t apply” defense is getting kinda stale. It’s one step away from “I was just following orders”
- closetohome 7y ago
  I've always said if it's your job to be an asshole, that doesn't mean you aren't an asshole, it just means you're an asshole with a job.
- baq 7y ago
  Having money to buy something to eat is also the right thing to do for any individual. As one comment said, options are limited. I’m playing the devil’s advocate here but only just.
- ahje 7y ago
  It sounds more like it's akin to wage slavery rather than blindly following orders. Assuming there aren't other jobs for those workers then they most likely have to chose between that job and a meagre existence based on government subsidies and goodwill of others.
jakub_g 7y ago
Well, you left out an important sentence just before which says: > A majority of Cat@Net’s employees are understood to be disabled, allowing the company to derive substantial public subsidies from Poland’s National Disabled Rehabilitation Fund. > "their disabilities mean that their employment opportunities are limited" When you have nothing to put into the pot, the perspective changes. Some of those people might be desperate for work, and in such situation one swallows their pride. Still, not all people would do such things. But I also imagine some of them might be underestimating the power of the work they're doing and thinking "it can't possibly lead to anything serious".
namirez 7y ago
> If someone's job is spewing cleverly provocative, disruptive, toxic, and intentionally negative messages all day I agree with you but I guess humans are very good at compartmentalizing their brain. Honestly, these jobs are not that different from working for defense contractors. They know their products are used to cause harm but still most people working in the defense industry manage to stay detached from the consequences of their work.
codedokode 7y ago
The effects of having no money and nothing to eat and nowhere to live, I assume, are much stronger than the ones you are describing.

rexpop 7y ago

Yeah, it's easy to profess that it's "just a job," but one carries one's work into one's private life, and ideological discourse. It's well-understood by Marxists how the mode of production determines the cultural superstructure[1] (and vice-versa). 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_and_superstructure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_and_superstructure

mieseratte 7y ago
> It's well-understood by Marxists how the mode of production determines the cultural superstructure[1] (and vice-versa). It's not "understood," it's a sociological theory. Hardly hard science.
- zajd 7y ago
  Who said anything about hard science? Just because something is well-understood by a group of people doesn't mean it has to have some sort of scientific basis to have any validity.
  - kortilla 7y ago
    Well at that point, who gives a shit? It offers no predictive capability like real models. Might as well talk about how it’s well understood by the Scientology community that it’s indicative of a required audit.
    - zajd 7y ago
      People who believe it give a shit. Same with any economic/political/social framework where there is no way to do "hard" science. Marxist economic frameworks are no different from the alternative economic frameworks our own leaders use to make decisions. Regardless, there are plenty of predictions that Marx/Marxists made over a hundred years ago that have stood up under scrutiny (and plenty others that haven't), there's a reason the economist is printing articles like this: https://www.economist.com/britain/2017/05/11/labour-is-right-karl-marx-has-a-lot-to-teach-todays-politicians https://www.economist.com/britain/2017/05/11/labour-is-right... I personally don't believe economics is a "hard science", but I still see the value in exploring the ideas and judging different theories on their own merit, even if we can't do double-blind studies to "prove" anything.

tnolet 7y ago

With the risk of pulling a Godwin, the “It’s just a job, so any ethics, morals or generally doing the right thing don’t apply” defense is getting kinda stale. It’s one step away from “I was just following orders”

closetohome 7y ago
I've always said if it's your job to be an asshole, that doesn't mean you aren't an asshole, it just means you're an asshole with a job.
baq 7y ago
Having money to buy something to eat is also the right thing to do for any individual. As one comment said, options are limited. I’m playing the devil’s advocate here but only just.
ahje 7y ago
It sounds more like it's akin to wage slavery rather than blindly following orders. Assuming there aren't other jobs for those workers then they most likely have to chose between that job and a meagre existence based on government subsidies and goodwill of others.

jakub_g 7y ago

Well, you left out an important sentence just before which says: > A majority of Cat@Net’s employees are understood to be disabled, allowing the company to derive substantial public subsidies from Poland’s National Disabled Rehabilitation Fund. > "their disabilities mean that their employment opportunities are limited" When you have nothing to put into the pot, the perspective changes. Some of those people might be desperate for work, and in such situation one swallows their pride. Still, not all people would do such things. But I also imagine some of them might be underestimating the power of the work they're doing and thinking "it can't possibly lead to anything serious".

namirez 7y ago

> If someone's job is spewing cleverly provocative, disruptive, toxic, and intentionally negative messages all day I agree with you but I guess humans are very good at compartmentalizing their brain. Honestly, these jobs are not that different from working for defense contractors. They know their products are used to cause harm but still most people working in the defense industry manage to stay detached from the consequences of their work.

codedokode 7y ago

The effects of having no money and nothing to eat and nowhere to live, I assume, are much stronger than the ones you are describing.