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Hehe. That's a somewhat idealistic depiction of Confoederatio Helvetica. The running joke is that in Switzerland, one must pay to even breathe. Yes, it is true
by Annatar 7y ago
Hehe. That's a somewhat idealistic depiction of Confoederatio Helvetica.
The running joke is that in Switzerland, one must pay to even breathe. Yes, it is true: Switzerland is among the richest countries in the world, and the standard of living alternates between #1 and #2 spot constantly. What nobody will tell you however, is that Switzerland is so ultra-hardcore-capitalist, that it would be every Texas Republican's wet dream. If one isn't drawing on social benefits, one pays for absolutely everything out of one's own pocket. Imagine a country so hardcore capitalist, where one is expected to pay for parking at a private grocery store parking lot. Ayn Rand would be beside herself from happiness there: it's like Galt's Gulch, only it's real.
The ultra-capitalism-one-pays-for-everything enables the taxes to be low, and low taxes, efficient legal system and armed neutrality bring in even more businesses and investment, so much so, that the European Union is whining and putting pressure on the country asserting that it competes unfairly by having low taxes. Even the cantons (states) compete against each other which one will have lower taxes. Those which have higher taxes have cheaper real estate and vice versa.
Galt's Gulch. Everybody pays outta wazoo, but the standard of living is high. By appointment only.
- rjkennedy98 7y agoI don't think you need to be a hard-core Ayn Rand libertarian to believe it is a good idea to make people pay for the infrastructure they use. Anyone who knows anything about infrastructure in the US knows how much we subsidize cars in so many different ways. Just getting people to pay for their cars via parking, tolls, ect is such a huge win for infrastructure advocates. When you make people pay, suddenly they don't love their cars so much.
- Annatar 7y agoI'm a car enthusiast, so much so that my daily driver is a 589 HP car. I pay through the nose to own my cars, and nothing will stop me from loving them. I rode public transport for 16 years and hated it, I'll never ride it of my own free will. Are you saying that loving cars is bad?
- meesles 7y ago> where one is expected to pay for parking at a private grocery store parking lot God forbid. /s
- Annatar 7y agoIf you're bringing business to the grocery store, it shouldn't try to gouge you extra. That's over the top even for a capitalist like me.
- lixtra 7y agoWhy should I, coming by bike, pay for your parking spot? Make the products cheaper and you can pay for the parking yourself.
- a_t48 7y agoWould you be willing to pay to lock your bike up, too?
- lixtra 7y agoSure. In many places with scarce place that is the case (i.e. train station).
- Annatar 7y agoYou are not paying for my parking spot, that's bullshit. The store made a business investment to attract customers, it has nothing to do with you. When I read such comments, it just reinforces my belief that Switzerland is a car hating country.
- _pferreir_ 7y agoPublic hospitals too. True story. Even though TBH, it's not shocking to me, considering how good public transport is around here. State-run public transport, BTW.
- 7y ago
- drcursor 7y agoA country so hard core capitalist that most of the key players are state (federation, kanton or city) held ? (Transportation, Weapon Manufacturing, main telecommunication companies, main consumer bank, hospitals, schools) and where some of the largest and most influential companies like supermarkets, furniture shops, etc are cooperatives ?
- Annatar 7y ago...And of those that are, they're under constant pressure to be profitable (as they should be). Need I remind how the latest round of aggressive, systemic, years long cost cutting at SBB left the infrastructure in need of revision and killed a conductor, while the federal government just booked 2.2 billion CHF ($2.23 billion USD) net profit? And the Swiss national bank, sitting on nearly 900 billion CHF in foreign currency, desperately trying to keep the value of the Swiss franc from skyrocketing into stratosphere?
- drcursor 7y agoI'm not denying anything you just said, I would even add to your list the private health insurance companies with their ever increasing costs, that, for most of the population only serve as a men in the middle for the base (mostly state provided) health care system. I just think its not fair to describe Switzerland as a liberal-capitalist heaven when it clearly is a protected economy with a lot of control from what would normally be defined as the 'state'.
- jpadkins 7y agowhy do you think cooperatives are anti-capitalist or anti-free market? I've always thought of coops as a natural byproduct of free market systems (sometimes orgs require outside capital, some orgs can be self funded).
- Annatar 7y agoI'm wondering the same thing: a cooperative doesn't clash with capitalism, especially if it's for profit.
- lone_haxx0r 7y ago> Imagine a country so hardcore capitalist, where one is expected to pay for parking at a private grocery store parking lot. That's perfect. People who don't use cars don't have to indirectly subsidize those who do.
- Annatar 7y agoYou betcha. Capitalism implemented correctly.
- Numberwang 7y agoI thought the Nordic Counties, Canada, Australia and Austria generally topped the standard of living lists, not Switzerland. So a mix of Nordic Social Capitalism and Bog standard Capitalism.
- hackeraccount 7y agoI've always imagined that Switzerland is what the United States would have been if the Articles of Confederation had worked. Or even if Ante-Bellum status quo had been able to deal with slavery.
- bhupy 7y agoI've even imagined the United States looking more like Switzerland today if the Seventeenth Amendment had never been ratified.
- hydraxis 7y agoMmh Switzerland has one of the best public transport system in the world, and it is heavily subsidized (https://www.voev.ch/de/Service/Downloadsindex.php?section=downloads&download=2208 https://www.voev.ch/de/Service/Downloadsindex.php?section=do...). How does this fit with your ultra-capitalism-one-pays-for-everything description?
- jandrese 7y agoAll personal transport is heavily subsidized. Especially automobiles unless you live in an area that is completely covered in toll roads.
- Annatar 7y agoConsidering all the taxes car owners pay in Switzerland, such as street tax, the vignette, fuel tax (which gets completely misappropriated, for public transportation no less, while the car owners sit in traffic jams every day), how are private cars subsidized? The "milk cow" initiative caused a scandal when it was found out that the money drivers have been paying for years in fuel taxes was being misappropriated to fill budget holes elsewhere for decades! How are cars subsidized?
- jandrese 7y agoIn the US the gas tax is only covers about 20% of the road budget in most states, the rest comes from other sources like income and property taxes. Public transport however is expected to be entirely self sufficient and is held up as an example of the failure of public projects when it ends up being more expensive than driving a car if you don't account for 80% of the roads funding.
- Annatar 7y agoThat's in the U.S., but we are discussing Switzerland, not the U.S. here, and in Switzerland, the taxes private car owners pay generate huge surpluses which are then embezzled by the federal government to plug up budget holes elsewhere, as well as for subsidizing public transportation. Meanwhile, car owners in Switzerland must sit in traffic jams at least twice per day because no new roads are being built, just the existing ones maintained.
- PhasmaFelis 7y ago> If one isn't drawing on social benefits, one pays for absolutely everything out of one's own pocket. Assuming the social benefits actually work, that sounds great and I'd be happy to pay. > Ayn Rand would be beside herself from happiness there: it's like Galt's Gulch, only it's real. Ayn Rand would be furious that social benefits still existed at all.
- Annatar 7y agoThat depends what one defines as working: one doesn't get didley squat until one sells everything one owns down to 4'000 francs. Only then does one qualify. Low income families get medical insurance help, but they still have to pay, and no, tax payments don't count, because what one is allowed to subtract is symbolic. That's about it. Unemployment benefit is only for 18 months maximum, if I'm not mistaken, is not part of the welfare, and in the best case scenario only pays 80% of the salary, and there might even be a ceiling to that; if one is a homeowner and one didn't manage to find a job, savings are next, then the cars and bikes and then the house, before welfare will even consider paying anything. Ayn Rand would be furious that social benefits still existed at all. Hehe, so true, and all the more hypocritical since she herself drew welfare benefits in the United States for years.
- cheez 7y ago> Hehe, so true, and all the more hypocritical since she herself drew welfare benefits in the United States for years. Her logic, and I agree, was that she was forced to pay in, she should get it out.
- PhasmaFelis 7y agoSo the system she despised was functioning to her benefit as intended. That seems like an even more damning indictment of her philosophy than simple hypocrisy.
- cheez 7y agoThat's the opposite way to read it
- linksnapzz 7y agoGiven how much of the country is tipped at an inconvenient angle for parking, I kinda don't blame them for making you pay to keep your car somewhere level.
- ur-whale 7y agoI'm not reading anything in your post that justifies the sarcastic tone.
- Annatar 7y agoI'm a sarcastic person, it's a personality trait and that should not be punished or judged because it's now trendy to do so.