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I find it pretty interesting that this comment is on HN. A few years ago, I think it was pretty widely accepted in SV that the last method you mention was just

I find it pretty interesting that this comment is on HN. A few years ago, I think it was pretty widely accepted in SV that the last method you mention was just part of the grind. Maybe not the most straight-shooting approach, but still accepted. We even had a title for it: growth hacking. People hired growth hackers! I'm going to refrain from asserting a value judgement; I just thought it was interesting

baq 7y ago
I've seen the job ads, but never knew that this was what it meant. Thanks.
- dang 7y ago
  Are you talking about job ads on HN? I don't know what you have in mind but from the context it sounds like it must be wrong. If you clarify, I can clarify.
dang 7y ago
We ban accounts that do that. It has never been acceptable on HN, not since the beginning, and not by a long shot. People have wildly varying ideas about what is "widely accepted in SV", largely imaginary I think, but in any case not in the section of the Venn diagram that HN overlaps with. (Btw, only about 10% of HN's community is in SV.) One case where we might not instantly ban someone is if they had a long history of using HN as intended. Then we might left them off with a strict warning not to do it again. But that's rare. Real community members tend not to do this kind of thing, and that makes it easier for the community to spot: since such comments are made by people without much experience here, they tend to stand out like a sore thumb—usually a bunch of green thumbs that turn red when whacked by a ban hammer. Many has been the email thread in which a sheepish startup founder or manager wrote to apologize for what their "growth hacker" did and asking to be unbanned. We usually let them off if they promise not to do it again and to tell all their friends that what "growth hacking" got them on HN was a swift ban. Another case where we incline to mercy is when the underlying article is good work and something the community would normally find interesting, and it's clear that the "growth hacking" was happening out of naivete. Usually this is because someone had the mistaken idea from afar that it was "widely accepted in SV" that this is how you do startups. Ironically they usually turn out to be classic technical types who are clumsy at marketing and influenced by the wrong kind of blogs. I say ironically because if they would just be themselves and present their work in a direct way, they'd more likely do well on HN. In this case the cure is to educate and hopefully make real community members out of them.
- dsfyu404ed 7y ago
  >We ban accounts that do that. It has never been acceptable on HN, I think he meant that it was an acceptable methodology, not that the various platforms condoned it. I don't think any platform has ever condoned that sort of use, or at least none that I can recall.
  - dang 7y ago
    That's a fair point, but I'd still like to get the word out that doing it on HN will get your accounts and sites banned. A similar point here if anyone is curious: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21439027 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21439027
  - nkurz 7y ago
    > I don't think any platform has ever condoned that sort of use I feel like Reddit came pretty close to condoning this sort of "growth hacking" when one of the founders confessed that they got the site off the ground by creating lots of fake accounts: https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/z4444w/how-reddit-got-huge-tons-of-fake-accounts--2 https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/z4444w/how-reddit-got-hug... I find this confession to be on a par with Zuckerberg's famous "dumb fucks" quote. While Reddit did go on to become a useful site, I consider their success to be permanently tainted. I applaud dang's efforts to ban users who attempt similar deceptions.
blaser-waffle 7y ago
> A few years ago, I think it was pretty widely accepted in SV that the last method you mention was just part of the grind Not just SV but everywhere.

baq 7y ago

I've seen the job ads, but never knew that this was what it meant. Thanks.

dang 7y ago
Are you talking about job ads on HN? I don't know what you have in mind but from the context it sounds like it must be wrong. If you clarify, I can clarify.

dang 7y ago

We ban accounts that do that. It has never been acceptable on HN, not since the beginning, and not by a long shot. People have wildly varying ideas about what is "widely accepted in SV", largely imaginary I think, but in any case not in the section of the Venn diagram that HN overlaps with. (Btw, only about 10% of HN's community is in SV.) One case where we might not instantly ban someone is if they had a long history of using HN as intended. Then we might left them off with a strict warning not to do it again. But that's rare. Real community members tend not to do this kind of thing, and that makes it easier for the community to spot: since such comments are made by people without much experience here, they tend to stand out like a sore thumb—usually a bunch of green thumbs that turn red when whacked by a ban hammer. Many has been the email thread in which a sheepish startup founder or manager wrote to apologize for what their "growth hacker" did and asking to be unbanned. We usually let them off if they promise not to do it again and to tell all their friends that what "growth hacking" got them on HN was a swift ban. Another case where we incline to mercy is when the underlying article is good work and something the community would normally find interesting, and it's clear that the "growth hacking" was happening out of naivete. Usually this is because someone had the mistaken idea from afar that it was "widely accepted in SV" that this is how you do startups. Ironically they usually turn out to be classic technical types who are clumsy at marketing and influenced by the wrong kind of blogs. I say ironically because if they would just be themselves and present their work in a direct way, they'd more likely do well on HN. In this case the cure is to educate and hopefully make real community members out of them.

dsfyu404ed 7y ago
>We ban accounts that do that. It has never been acceptable on HN, I think he meant that it was an acceptable methodology, not that the various platforms condoned it. I don't think any platform has ever condoned that sort of use, or at least none that I can recall.
- dang 7y ago
  That's a fair point, but I'd still like to get the word out that doing it on HN will get your accounts and sites banned. A similar point here if anyone is curious: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21439027 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21439027
- nkurz 7y ago
  > I don't think any platform has ever condoned that sort of use I feel like Reddit came pretty close to condoning this sort of "growth hacking" when one of the founders confessed that they got the site off the ground by creating lots of fake accounts: https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/z4444w/how-reddit-got-huge-tons-of-fake-accounts--2 https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/z4444w/how-reddit-got-hug... I find this confession to be on a par with Zuckerberg's famous "dumb fucks" quote. While Reddit did go on to become a useful site, I consider their success to be permanently tainted. I applaud dang's efforts to ban users who attempt similar deceptions.

blaser-waffle 7y ago

> A few years ago, I think it was pretty widely accepted in SV that the last method you mention was just part of the grind Not just SV but everywhere.