4 ms·

Because if you build the rows and rows of gross generic condos with corporate shops underneath that ruined Seattle, it will no longer be such a desirable place

Because if you build the rows and rows of gross generic condos with corporate shops underneath that ruined Seattle, it will no longer be such a desirable place to live.

selectodude 7y ago
In older cities there are rows and rows of very similar looking buildings in very desirable areas. All those buildings were brand new once upon a time. Cities are cool because of the people who live there. If Seattle is so boring and generic, that says more about the people than the architecture.
- momokoko 7y ago
  Another good point. New corporate housing development have a high bias towards boring and generic, or safe, tenants.
  - tspike 7y ago
    Maybe, but then those "boring and generic" people will move out of "interesting" architecture and allow other people the opportunity to improve the place.
carapace 7y ago
If you're in San Francisco, go take a look at the thing that recently went up across the street from the Zoo. The Westerly Condominium 2800 Sloat Blvd, San Francisco, CA 94116 https://goo.gl/maps/vmBTAKoN4grP5GfE7 https://goo.gl/maps/vmBTAKoN4grP5GfE7 It's ugly as sin. It's almost Brutalist but without any of the exciting style (which, I say as a fan of Brutalist architecture, is it's only saving grace.) - - - - It's very easy to see that, if you replaced all those blocks and blocks of single-family homes around it, that make up the Outer Sunset district today, with similar condo-monsters you could fit another 100,000-200,000 people out there. One huge problem with that is that there's no infrastructure for those people. Nevermind that the nearest grocery store is over a mile away (in a city that is 7x7 miles square), we could build more grocery stores. Consider the roads. The only way out of there is East on Sloat or Lincoln, or South on 19th Ave which becomes 280. The Great Highway extension to Lake Merced and Skyline Blvd is closing soon due to the beach reclaiming the area (hello climate change.) Which reminds me, the Westerly will be beachfront property in a few years. I mean the beach will reach it. Talk about underwater real estate. The whole of the Sunset is going to need a big dike. (Because that worked out so well for New Orleans.) Anyhow, I had a friend who moved from Outer Sunset to Oakland and his commute time (to downtown SF) was reduced by half. In a lot of ways it makes much more sense to build in the East bay than on the SF peninsula. (If I were starting a startup I would do it in Davis CA!) I'm just ranting now... - - - - Just converting the existing blocks to e.g. Westerly-style condos isn't the way forward that I personally want to see. The thing is so fucking ugly it makes me sad. It doesn't even try to take advantage of the incredible view. The ocean-facing side ignores the ocean. The ground floor is hostile, it looks and feels like a fortress. "There's no organic flow through. It's like an ant farm." It somehow looms over the Sloat Nursery next door despite the distance. Tiny inner courtyards that are doomed to eternal gloom. I just hate this building so much, especially compared to what it could have been.
- idoh 7y ago
  Not a fan of that building, but at least they are trying to do something. A small correction to "Nevermind that the nearest grocery store is over a mile away" - I heard that there will be a Whole Foods placed on the bottom floor of that thing, so that would solve the grocery store issue.
  - 0xffff2 7y ago
    I'm a bay area software engineer, but on a government contractor's salary. I would never even consider setting foot inside of a Whole Foods for fear of spending my entire monthly grocery budget in a single trip. In my mind Whole Foods solves the grocery store issue every bit as well as a 7-eleven.
    - idoh 7y ago
      I totally get that. Shopping at Whole Foods is not part of my plan either. My point is narrowly tailored, in that the OP said that there is a new apartment building being built with no matching resources to support it. That's not true because having a Whole Foods directly underneath an apartment building charging $4K rents does seem like a match. I live in the Outer Sunset, and it is not by any stretch of the imagination a food desert. There's many grocery options with easy parking or by train, just not in walking distance.
- meddlepal 7y ago
  Maybe our tastes differ but actually like that building. Lots of facade variations and it is somewhat interesting. Ground level activation would be better with an activated street wall but that's my only big complaint.
  - carapace 7y ago
    I'm looking at it through the lens of abstract possibilities (al la Christopher Alexander's "Pattern Language" et. al., and Paolo Soleri's concept of the "Arcology") as well as the beauty of (some of) San Francisco's historic architecture. (see also the "Wells Scale" https://firequery.blogspot.com/2009/05/wells-scale.html https://firequery.blogspot.com/2009/05/wells-scale.html )
icelancer 7y ago
I don't like those buildings either but real estate prices are telling me that Seattle is still a plenty desirable place to live.
- pault 7y ago
  Except for the shanty towns. Seattle is the only US city I've been to that has literal shanties built on every flat spot available next to the highway. Take a taxi from the airport to downtown some time to see for yourself.
  - icelancer 7y ago
    I live in South Seattle - I'm in the middle of it. SF is worse by quite a bit, but I take your point.
nemothekid 7y ago
The generic architecture retort is a boogeyman. Most cities are “rows and rows of generic housing”. San Francisco is littered with cookie cutter townhomes that were built cheaply and are almost architecturally identical.
dmoy 7y ago
I'll take generic over 10x-15x median income any day of the week. (<$100k/yr median household income, >$1.3m median home sale price?)
- megablast 7y ago
  Ok, cool. It is not up to you though. It is up to the people who voted no, they do not want this.
  - mactrey 7y ago
    Which is unfortunate because while that decision works out for their bank accounts it is a worse result for the entire rest of society.
sologoub 7y ago
Sounds like what contemporaries have said of another urban project: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haussmann%27s_renovation_of_Paris https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haussmann%27s_renovation_of_...
sizzle 7y ago
Same type of buildings are littered across Portland and sitting with in vacancy.
harryh 7y ago
"Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded." - Yogi Berra[1] 1. Well, maybe said by him: https://quoteinvestigator.com/2014/08/29/too-crowded/ https://quoteinvestigator.com/2014/08/29/too-crowded/

Because if you build the rows and rows of gross generic condos with corporate shops underneath that ruined Seattle, it will no longer be such a desirable place to live.

selectodude 7y ago

In older cities there are rows and rows of very similar looking buildings in very desirable areas. All those buildings were brand new once upon a time. Cities are cool because of the people who live there. If Seattle is so boring and generic, that says more about the people than the architecture.

momokoko 7y ago
Another good point. New corporate housing development have a high bias towards boring and generic, or safe, tenants.
- tspike 7y ago
  Maybe, but then those "boring and generic" people will move out of "interesting" architecture and allow other people the opportunity to improve the place.

carapace 7y ago

If you're in San Francisco, go take a look at the thing that recently went up across the street from the Zoo. The Westerly Condominium 2800 Sloat Blvd, San Francisco, CA 94116 https://goo.gl/maps/vmBTAKoN4grP5GfE7 https://goo.gl/maps/vmBTAKoN4grP5GfE7 It's ugly as sin. It's almost Brutalist but without any of the exciting style (which, I say as a fan of Brutalist architecture, is it's only saving grace.) - - - - It's very easy to see that, if you replaced all those blocks and blocks of single-family homes around it, that make up the Outer Sunset district today, with similar condo-monsters you could fit another 100,000-200,000 people out there. One huge problem with that is that there's no infrastructure for those people. Nevermind that the nearest grocery store is over a mile away (in a city that is 7x7 miles square), we could build more grocery stores. Consider the roads. The only way out of there is East on Sloat or Lincoln, or South on 19th Ave which becomes 280. The Great Highway extension to Lake Merced and Skyline Blvd is closing soon due to the beach reclaiming the area (hello climate change.) Which reminds me, the Westerly will be beachfront property in a few years. I mean the beach will reach it. Talk about underwater real estate. The whole of the Sunset is going to need a big dike. (Because that worked out so well for New Orleans.) Anyhow, I had a friend who moved from Outer Sunset to Oakland and his commute time (to downtown SF) was reduced by half. In a lot of ways it makes much more sense to build in the East bay than on the SF peninsula. (If I were starting a startup I would do it in Davis CA!) I'm just ranting now... - - - - Just converting the existing blocks to e.g. Westerly-style condos isn't the way forward that I personally want to see. The thing is so fucking ugly it makes me sad. It doesn't even try to take advantage of the incredible view. The ocean-facing side ignores the ocean. The ground floor is hostile, it looks and feels like a fortress. "There's no organic flow through. It's like an ant farm." It somehow looms over the Sloat Nursery next door despite the distance. Tiny inner courtyards that are doomed to eternal gloom. I just hate this building so much, especially compared to what it could have been.

idoh 7y ago
Not a fan of that building, but at least they are trying to do something. A small correction to "Nevermind that the nearest grocery store is over a mile away" - I heard that there will be a Whole Foods placed on the bottom floor of that thing, so that would solve the grocery store issue.
- 0xffff2 7y ago
  I'm a bay area software engineer, but on a government contractor's salary. I would never even consider setting foot inside of a Whole Foods for fear of spending my entire monthly grocery budget in a single trip. In my mind Whole Foods solves the grocery store issue every bit as well as a 7-eleven.
  - idoh 7y ago
    I totally get that. Shopping at Whole Foods is not part of my plan either. My point is narrowly tailored, in that the OP said that there is a new apartment building being built with no matching resources to support it. That's not true because having a Whole Foods directly underneath an apartment building charging $4K rents does seem like a match. I live in the Outer Sunset, and it is not by any stretch of the imagination a food desert. There's many grocery options with easy parking or by train, just not in walking distance.
meddlepal 7y ago
Maybe our tastes differ but actually like that building. Lots of facade variations and it is somewhat interesting. Ground level activation would be better with an activated street wall but that's my only big complaint.
- carapace 7y ago
  I'm looking at it through the lens of abstract possibilities (al la Christopher Alexander's "Pattern Language" et. al., and Paolo Soleri's concept of the "Arcology") as well as the beauty of (some of) San Francisco's historic architecture. (see also the "Wells Scale" https://firequery.blogspot.com/2009/05/wells-scale.html https://firequery.blogspot.com/2009/05/wells-scale.html )

icelancer 7y ago

I don't like those buildings either but real estate prices are telling me that Seattle is still a plenty desirable place to live.

pault 7y ago
Except for the shanty towns. Seattle is the only US city I've been to that has literal shanties built on every flat spot available next to the highway. Take a taxi from the airport to downtown some time to see for yourself.
- icelancer 7y ago
  I live in South Seattle - I'm in the middle of it. SF is worse by quite a bit, but I take your point.

nemothekid 7y ago

The generic architecture retort is a boogeyman. Most cities are “rows and rows of generic housing”. San Francisco is littered with cookie cutter townhomes that were built cheaply and are almost architecturally identical.

dmoy 7y ago

I'll take generic over 10x-15x median income any day of the week. (<$100k/yr median household income, >$1.3m median home sale price?)

megablast 7y ago
Ok, cool. It is not up to you though. It is up to the people who voted no, they do not want this.
- mactrey 7y ago
  Which is unfortunate because while that decision works out for their bank accounts it is a worse result for the entire rest of society.

sologoub 7y ago

Sounds like what contemporaries have said of another urban project: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haussmann%27s_renovation_of_Paris https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haussmann%27s_renovation_of_...

sizzle 7y ago

Same type of buildings are littered across Portland and sitting with in vacancy.

harryh 7y ago

"Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded." - Yogi Berra[1] 1. Well, maybe said by him: https://quoteinvestigator.com/2014/08/29/too-crowded/ https://quoteinvestigator.com/2014/08/29/too-crowded/