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What was eye opening to me is that, if the GP is to be believed, is that people keep buying F150s? Clearly, not everyone believes in the idea of climate change

What was eye opening to me is that, if the GP is to be believed, is that people keep buying F150s? Clearly, not everyone believes in the idea of climate change. (In fact, if that factoid is correct, a plurality of automobile consumers don't? That's a "wow" moment for me.)

mxschumacher 7y ago
I believe cognitive dissonance is extremely widespread. 100% of smokers know that what they are doing is extremely bad for their health. Everybody knows about the suffering the animal industry inflicts on billions of cows, chicken and pigs. The awareness of these problems does not seem to lead to widespread and lasting changes in behavior. The taste of a burger and the sensation of driving a powerful car seems to trump moral considerations for a majority of humans. As an example: Green party members in Germany are the ones who fly the most
- netsharc 7y ago
  As someone who believes in climate change and still hasn't changed his lifestyle (I still like beef, I've flown a bit this year), I fully agree. And nowadays I and many people in this group are probably adopting the mindset of "well, we're all going to die and it's too late to change anything anyway!". Although actions like "paper straws please!" don't really have that huge of an effect anyway, it just fools social media activists to think they're helping... It seems the change will come when it comes through societal shaming, like smoking in the USA. But it'll be a long time before people look down at someone saying "oh your car is still internal combustion?"
  - Ancalagon 7y ago
    I gotta fess up I am the same way you are. My one excuse is that it would literally be impossible for me to get food/get to work in any reasonable way without a car, and I would never see my family if I couldn't fly back home. I also would like to stop eating meat, but I find my "addiction" to meat consumption to be unlike anything else. I could give up coffee and alcohol no sweat but meat is like a whole other level. Realistically, it seems to me that much of the economy and the way cities and populations work and interact need to be redesigned from the ground up to have a much smaller footprint...
lightedman 7y ago
"What was eye opening to me is that, if the GP is to be believed, is that people keep buying F150s?" During the recession and auto industry bailout, Ford was the only auto company to almost immediately repay their TARP funding and was also giving out loans to people. They were practically unaffected and didn't even need the TARP funding in the first place.
dickeytk 7y ago
Truck/suv sales are certainly up, but I think the F-150 has traditionally always been the top selling vehicle—more having to do with fewer options in the domestic full-size market and fleet sales though
cr0sh 7y ago
Something to keep in mind also is that today's F150 is not the same as "yesterday's" F150. Today's F150 is made out of mostly aluminum - not steel. Today's F150 only comes in 4 and 6 cylinder models. 8 cylinder was dropped, and I think the smaller engines are turbocharged to make up for the difference (what if anything this does for emissions or fuel usage, I am not certain). There are probably more than a few other differences as well that might make the vehicles objectively better than their forebears. That isn't to say they are better than other options, just that they are possibly and likely better than what they used to be - but are still frequently used as "scare fodder" for a public who doesn't generally follow or understand how the vehicle has changed.
- blisterpeanuts 7y ago
  In addition, Ford has announced an electric version of the F150 for 2021. Several other makers, including Tesla, are planning or already producing electric SUV's and trucks. Should be interesting to see the adoption rates in urban settings. Rural would be more difficult for long haul applications, but a contractor traveling 50-100 miles a day in a metropolitan area could easily go electric.
- rootusrootus 7y ago
  > 8 cylinder was dropped That's incorrect, you can definitely still spec it with a 5.0L V8. The twin turbo V6 is the range topping engine, however. And it isn't especially fuel efficient unless you never ask it to do anything hard. We have an F150 with the ecoboost 3.5L and it's fantastic when towing our RV, but it gets 10 mpg while doing so. In the end you can't really get around physics. Heavy pickup, takes a lot of fuel to make it move, even if you try to reduce pumping losses with smaller engines.
- jdhn 7y ago
  There is no 4 cylinder F-150, but there are 2 V6 engines of various size, and the 5.0L V8 for the purists. The hybrid and electric versions of the F-150 are also coming within 2 years, which is exciting because if Ford pulls it off, then there'll be a lot of people who will see electric vehicles in a new light.
Jamwinner 7y ago
Emissions standards nerfed most sedans into distinctionless conveyance aplliances. Trucks have a looser standard, and are popular as a result of more power and easy customization. Also possibly (on average) the best built fullsize truck made for the last 100 years. Brand loyalty has been earned with the f series. I say that as a person who is not particularlly fond of fords.
- DataWorker 7y ago
  Not to mention tax incentives. Many of those f150 are business write offs.

mxschumacher 7y ago

I believe cognitive dissonance is extremely widespread. 100% of smokers know that what they are doing is extremely bad for their health. Everybody knows about the suffering the animal industry inflicts on billions of cows, chicken and pigs. The awareness of these problems does not seem to lead to widespread and lasting changes in behavior. The taste of a burger and the sensation of driving a powerful car seems to trump moral considerations for a majority of humans. As an example: Green party members in Germany are the ones who fly the most

netsharc 7y ago
As someone who believes in climate change and still hasn't changed his lifestyle (I still like beef, I've flown a bit this year), I fully agree. And nowadays I and many people in this group are probably adopting the mindset of "well, we're all going to die and it's too late to change anything anyway!". Although actions like "paper straws please!" don't really have that huge of an effect anyway, it just fools social media activists to think they're helping... It seems the change will come when it comes through societal shaming, like smoking in the USA. But it'll be a long time before people look down at someone saying "oh your car is still internal combustion?"
- Ancalagon 7y ago
  I gotta fess up I am the same way you are. My one excuse is that it would literally be impossible for me to get food/get to work in any reasonable way without a car, and I would never see my family if I couldn't fly back home. I also would like to stop eating meat, but I find my "addiction" to meat consumption to be unlike anything else. I could give up coffee and alcohol no sweat but meat is like a whole other level. Realistically, it seems to me that much of the economy and the way cities and populations work and interact need to be redesigned from the ground up to have a much smaller footprint...

lightedman 7y ago

"What was eye opening to me is that, if the GP is to be believed, is that people keep buying F150s?" During the recession and auto industry bailout, Ford was the only auto company to almost immediately repay their TARP funding and was also giving out loans to people. They were practically unaffected and didn't even need the TARP funding in the first place.

dickeytk 7y ago

Truck/suv sales are certainly up, but I think the F-150 has traditionally always been the top selling vehicle—more having to do with fewer options in the domestic full-size market and fleet sales though

cr0sh 7y ago

Something to keep in mind also is that today's F150 is not the same as "yesterday's" F150. Today's F150 is made out of mostly aluminum - not steel. Today's F150 only comes in 4 and 6 cylinder models. 8 cylinder was dropped, and I think the smaller engines are turbocharged to make up for the difference (what if anything this does for emissions or fuel usage, I am not certain). There are probably more than a few other differences as well that might make the vehicles objectively better than their forebears. That isn't to say they are better than other options, just that they are possibly and likely better than what they used to be - but are still frequently used as "scare fodder" for a public who doesn't generally follow or understand how the vehicle has changed.

blisterpeanuts 7y ago
In addition, Ford has announced an electric version of the F150 for 2021. Several other makers, including Tesla, are planning or already producing electric SUV's and trucks. Should be interesting to see the adoption rates in urban settings. Rural would be more difficult for long haul applications, but a contractor traveling 50-100 miles a day in a metropolitan area could easily go electric.
rootusrootus 7y ago
> 8 cylinder was dropped That's incorrect, you can definitely still spec it with a 5.0L V8. The twin turbo V6 is the range topping engine, however. And it isn't especially fuel efficient unless you never ask it to do anything hard. We have an F150 with the ecoboost 3.5L and it's fantastic when towing our RV, but it gets 10 mpg while doing so. In the end you can't really get around physics. Heavy pickup, takes a lot of fuel to make it move, even if you try to reduce pumping losses with smaller engines.
jdhn 7y ago
There is no 4 cylinder F-150, but there are 2 V6 engines of various size, and the 5.0L V8 for the purists. The hybrid and electric versions of the F-150 are also coming within 2 years, which is exciting because if Ford pulls it off, then there'll be a lot of people who will see electric vehicles in a new light.

Jamwinner 7y ago

Emissions standards nerfed most sedans into distinctionless conveyance aplliances. Trucks have a looser standard, and are popular as a result of more power and easy customization. Also possibly (on average) the best built fullsize truck made for the last 100 years. Brand loyalty has been earned with the f series. I say that as a person who is not particularlly fond of fords.

DataWorker 7y ago
Not to mention tax incentives. Many of those f150 are business write offs.