6 ms·

Thankfully your circle of acquaintances isn't even remotely close to representing the wider world out there and the plethora of legitimate use cases that it pre

by kobasa 7y ago

Thankfully your circle of acquaintances isn't even remotely close to representing the wider world out there and the plethora of legitimate use cases that it presents for all sorts of people in this world. Just last week a friend of mine from another country was suppose to send me a few hundred bucks. He could have sent it 'traditionally' but he would have been harassed about why he was sending money abroad and wasted considerable time and effort going to a physical bank branch. Instead in under a minute he sent me some Ethereum and we both were able to confirm the transaction near immediately. I'm now able to use that in the way I see fit directly within a Chrome extension within the browser I'm typing this on. I can take this money and start earning interest higher than any bank will give me within a few minutes. And this is just the beginning of cutting out middleman and processes that feel as cumbersome as sending a letter vs an email.

ppf 7y ago
> my friend sent me $300 > Oh wait, now it's $310 > Damn, now it's $200 The other downside, as you mention, is that the only main use for Eth is speculating on experimental lending platforms.
- kobasa 7y ago
  You can send a stablecoin if you have a problem with volatility. There's even a native one called Dai which is outside the traditional banking system.
  - ppf 7y ago
    And how is it pegged? Someone asked the various exchanges very nicely if they could only trade it for $1?
    - robcohen 7y ago
      Dai is explained here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnoQOlVTMeg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnoQOlVTMeg
      - ppf 7y ago
        The only way to find out is to watch a 20 minute video by a crypto nutter? Is there not a simple explanation for how Dai is pegged to the dollar?
        zionic 7y ago
        DAI is a complex series of loans, borrowing, and interest that creates incentive to sell your DAI if it goes over $1 and incentive to buy if it goes below $1. DAI has basically maintained $1 for years even as ETH prices have been all over the place. It's battle tested. If you can't be bothered to do a few minutes of research on a complicated topic I don't know what you're doing here.
        ppf 7y ago
        So you're basically telling me "it's complicated"? These "incentives" you mention require general faith on the part of traders that Dai really is worth $1, and given the incredibly low liquidity of USD/Dai trading, you can stay in fantasy land for a long time. >If you can't be bothered to do a few minutes of research.. I'm not on HN to "learn" crypto, and you forget you're not on some crappy crypto forum.
        robocat 7y ago
        You appear to be very rude to me; you asked: > And how is [DAI] pegged? Someone asked the various exchanges very nicely if they could only trade it for $1? This is a forum and people have given you pointers to answers and you are expected to do the work to study on your own. This happens a lot in life.
        ppf 7y ago
        So far, I have a 20-minute video that is clearly mostly not about the Dai peg, and a link to a very wordy "paper". I skimmed both, and the answer is apparently "oracles", or a price feed from several crypto exchanges. That's a really simple answer, that doesn't need burying in layers of cryptobabble and an attitude that I can only describe as condescending.
    - Geee 7y ago
      It's backed by collateral locked in Ethereum smart contracts. https://makerdao.com/en/whitepaper#overview-of-the-dai-stablecoin-system https://makerdao.com/en/whitepaper#overview-of-the-dai-stabl...
      - ppf 7y ago
        That doesn't explain how it's pegged to the dollar.
        Legogris 7y ago
        It is laid out pretty well in the link you got how it is not pegged to the US dollar (which I don't think anyone claimed either).
        ppf 7y ago
        >You can send a stablecoin if you have a problem with volatility Yes, they did. I'm aware that Dai is not well pegged to the dollar, but then I'm not a crypto-fan.
        Legogris 7y ago
        "Stablecoin" != "hard peg to USD"
        ppf 7y ago
        I'm fully aware of that. What I would like to know is the mechanism that links Dai in any way to USD. So far, I've been told the onus on me is to research it, and then that my conclusions from that research are wrong.
        Legogris 7y ago
        If you spent as much time reading and internalizing the whitepaper as you did arguing about it online you'd be there already. I know I'm being snarky, but you're coming of as trollier and trollier. This is not Reddit.
the_gastropod 7y ago
> He could have sent it 'traditionally' but he would have been harassed about why he was sending money abroad and wasted considerable time and effort going to a physical bank branch. Instead in under a minute he sent me some Ethereum and we both were able to confirm the transaction near immediately Have you heard of options like TransferWise or OFX? They offer immediate transfers, lower transaction fees than ETH or BTC, etc. Using crypto in this manner is wholly unnecessary. > I can take this money and start earning interest higher than any bank will give me within a few minutes Earning interest? Are you talking about "HODLing"? ETH has dropped by nearly 90% since its peak less than 2 years ago. There's massive risk in holding ETH/BTC. You don't get to cherry-pick dates and claim that it's better than holding in a bank—it's not. BTC/ETH are 0-sum games, so on average nobody earns a dime of interest.
- kobasa 7y ago
  First of all YOU are the one cherry picking dates (conveniently picking the all-time high price which only lasted for a small timeframe). And now, I'm talking about DeFi (decentralized finance) where you can earn interest on top of your principal. Also the ETH transaction fee is literally a few cents.
- ppf 7y ago
  >Earning interest He's talking about "DeFi" ("distributed finance") - the current craze in the Ethereum world. Various groups are offering significant interest rates for loaning out your Eth. It's hard to see how it's not another speculation bubble waiting to burst.
  - microtherion 7y ago
    I suppose calling this “Probabilistic Online-Zone Investment” aka “POnZI” would have been a bit on the nose.
    - tuesdayrain 7y ago
      Jeez, the quality of HN comments these days is not what it used to be.
maeln 7y ago
Yes but you don't end up with the few hundred bucks, you end up with Ethereum. If you need to pay for something using euro, dollar, ... you going to need to convert it which will include fees. Plus, I don't want to defend the banking industry, but there is often two reason why transferring money is a bit cumbersome with banks: Scam and terrorism/money laundring. The first thing is, the average Joe cannot help himself but get scammed. Because of this banks have to try to check has much has possible that you are doing what you think you are doing and make you jump through some hoop. Because had the end of the day, its probably the bank that will have to pay for your idiocy. They have insurance but insurance are not free. Crypto-currency usually don't care about this, if you send BTC to one address, you send BTC to one address, and if it was a scam, you have no way to get anything back. Being able to transfer money at just the click of a button also has its problem, lets be honest. And terrorism / money-laundering. There is a lot of regulation about it, none that crypto-currency care about. You could be sending BTC to Daesh, nobody can stop you. Banks have to stop you. Just like they have to check that the money you are sending / receiving is legitimate and not from some illegal operation. That is why international money transfer takes more time and cost a lot more. Now granted, a lot of banks are still awful at preventing scam even though they are extremely cumbersome to use. Just like a lot don't want to be bother with the whole money-laundering process and will try to discourage you to do anything that would require them to follow the process. And yes, some of them abuse their dominance to put ludicrous fess, etc. But the fact is that crypto-currencies live in a dream world where they don't have to put up with the rules that banks do. And that is why they will either never see widespread use, or they will have to find a way to comply with country regulation, which will need the third party that they tried so hard to remove.
- damon_c 7y ago
  >Yes but you don't end up with the few hundred bucks, you end up with Ethereum. If you need to pay for something using euro, dollar, ... you going to need to convert it which will include fees. I one has dollars and wants to pay for something using Euro or anything else, one will need to convert it which will include fees.

by kobasa 7y ago

ppf 7y ago

> my friend sent me $300 > Oh wait, now it's $310 > Damn, now it's $200 The other downside, as you mention, is that the only main use for Eth is speculating on experimental lending platforms.

kobasa 7y ago
You can send a stablecoin if you have a problem with volatility. There's even a native one called Dai which is outside the traditional banking system.
- ppf 7y ago
  And how is it pegged? Someone asked the various exchanges very nicely if they could only trade it for $1?
  - robcohen 7y ago
    Dai is explained here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnoQOlVTMeg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnoQOlVTMeg
    - ppf 7y ago
      The only way to find out is to watch a 20 minute video by a crypto nutter? Is there not a simple explanation for how Dai is pegged to the dollar?
      - zionic 7y ago
        DAI is a complex series of loans, borrowing, and interest that creates incentive to sell your DAI if it goes over $1 and incentive to buy if it goes below $1. DAI has basically maintained $1 for years even as ETH prices have been all over the place. It's battle tested. If you can't be bothered to do a few minutes of research on a complicated topic I don't know what you're doing here.
        ppf 7y ago
        So you're basically telling me "it's complicated"? These "incentives" you mention require general faith on the part of traders that Dai really is worth $1, and given the incredibly low liquidity of USD/Dai trading, you can stay in fantasy land for a long time. >If you can't be bothered to do a few minutes of research.. I'm not on HN to "learn" crypto, and you forget you're not on some crappy crypto forum.
        robocat 7y ago
        You appear to be very rude to me; you asked: > And how is [DAI] pegged? Someone asked the various exchanges very nicely if they could only trade it for $1? This is a forum and people have given you pointers to answers and you are expected to do the work to study on your own. This happens a lot in life.
        ppf 7y ago
        So far, I have a 20-minute video that is clearly mostly not about the Dai peg, and a link to a very wordy "paper". I skimmed both, and the answer is apparently "oracles", or a price feed from several crypto exchanges. That's a really simple answer, that doesn't need burying in layers of cryptobabble and an attitude that I can only describe as condescending.
  - Geee 7y ago
    It's backed by collateral locked in Ethereum smart contracts. https://makerdao.com/en/whitepaper#overview-of-the-dai-stablecoin-system https://makerdao.com/en/whitepaper#overview-of-the-dai-stabl...
    - ppf 7y ago
      That doesn't explain how it's pegged to the dollar.
      - Legogris 7y ago
        It is laid out pretty well in the link you got how it is not pegged to the US dollar (which I don't think anyone claimed either).
        ppf 7y ago
        >You can send a stablecoin if you have a problem with volatility Yes, they did. I'm aware that Dai is not well pegged to the dollar, but then I'm not a crypto-fan.
        Legogris 7y ago
        "Stablecoin" != "hard peg to USD"
        ppf 7y ago
        I'm fully aware of that. What I would like to know is the mechanism that links Dai in any way to USD. So far, I've been told the onus on me is to research it, and then that my conclusions from that research are wrong.
        Legogris 7y ago
        If you spent as much time reading and internalizing the whitepaper as you did arguing about it online you'd be there already. I know I'm being snarky, but you're coming of as trollier and trollier. This is not Reddit.

the_gastropod 7y ago

> He could have sent it 'traditionally' but he would have been harassed about why he was sending money abroad and wasted considerable time and effort going to a physical bank branch. Instead in under a minute he sent me some Ethereum and we both were able to confirm the transaction near immediately Have you heard of options like TransferWise or OFX? They offer immediate transfers, lower transaction fees than ETH or BTC, etc. Using crypto in this manner is wholly unnecessary. > I can take this money and start earning interest higher than any bank will give me within a few minutes Earning interest? Are you talking about "HODLing"? ETH has dropped by nearly 90% since its peak less than 2 years ago. There's massive risk in holding ETH/BTC. You don't get to cherry-pick dates and claim that it's better than holding in a bank—it's not. BTC/ETH are 0-sum games, so on average nobody earns a dime of interest.

kobasa 7y ago
First of all YOU are the one cherry picking dates (conveniently picking the all-time high price which only lasted for a small timeframe). And now, I'm talking about DeFi (decentralized finance) where you can earn interest on top of your principal. Also the ETH transaction fee is literally a few cents.
ppf 7y ago
>Earning interest He's talking about "DeFi" ("distributed finance") - the current craze in the Ethereum world. Various groups are offering significant interest rates for loaning out your Eth. It's hard to see how it's not another speculation bubble waiting to burst.
- microtherion 7y ago
  I suppose calling this “Probabilistic Online-Zone Investment” aka “POnZI” would have been a bit on the nose.
  - tuesdayrain 7y ago
    Jeez, the quality of HN comments these days is not what it used to be.

maeln 7y ago

Yes but you don't end up with the few hundred bucks, you end up with Ethereum. If you need to pay for something using euro, dollar, ... you going to need to convert it which will include fees. Plus, I don't want to defend the banking industry, but there is often two reason why transferring money is a bit cumbersome with banks: Scam and terrorism/money laundring. The first thing is, the average Joe cannot help himself but get scammed. Because of this banks have to try to check has much has possible that you are doing what you think you are doing and make you jump through some hoop. Because had the end of the day, its probably the bank that will have to pay for your idiocy. They have insurance but insurance are not free. Crypto-currency usually don't care about this, if you send BTC to one address, you send BTC to one address, and if it was a scam, you have no way to get anything back. Being able to transfer money at just the click of a button also has its problem, lets be honest. And terrorism / money-laundering. There is a lot of regulation about it, none that crypto-currency care about. You could be sending BTC to Daesh, nobody can stop you. Banks have to stop you. Just like they have to check that the money you are sending / receiving is legitimate and not from some illegal operation. That is why international money transfer takes more time and cost a lot more. Now granted, a lot of banks are still awful at preventing scam even though they are extremely cumbersome to use. Just like a lot don't want to be bother with the whole money-laundering process and will try to discourage you to do anything that would require them to follow the process. And yes, some of them abuse their dominance to put ludicrous fess, etc. But the fact is that crypto-currencies live in a dream world where they don't have to put up with the rules that banks do. And that is why they will either never see widespread use, or they will have to find a way to comply with country regulation, which will need the third party that they tried so hard to remove.

damon_c 7y ago
>Yes but you don't end up with the few hundred bucks, you end up with Ethereum. If you need to pay for something using euro, dollar, ... you going to need to convert it which will include fees. I one has dollars and wants to pay for something using Euro or anything else, one will need to convert it which will include fees.