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I know, i know, it's awesome. But, unless it's specifically to make a point regarding the absurdity of today's web (such as eg demonstrating CSS Turing complete

I know, i know, it's awesome. But, unless it's specifically to make a point regarding the absurdity of today's web (such as eg demonstrating CSS Turing completeness), I can't help finding such hacks sad, because it just blends in to demonstrate how far we've striven from what once was a vision for a rational media architecture with a dedicated vector graphic format.

toddmorey 7y ago
I don’t think that’s fair, exactly. The point of this exercise is to show artistic expression by pushing a medium outside of its intended use. There’s also an artist that paints in MS Excel, for example. SVG is an incredible and underrated format. You can create illustrations in svg with modern graphics tools, yet still hack and animate them with css and js. And CSS Houdini is a really exciting development, too. Some things about the web platform are frustrating for sure, but this sort of project isn’t any kind of statement on the effort required to build modern web graphics and illustrations because you’d never approach it this way. It’s just a fun puzzle for the artist, and every tech and medium has examples of this sort of thing.
- SanchoPanda 7y ago
  The amazing MS Excel artist mentioned can be found here: https://pasokonga.com/ https://pasokonga.com/
tiborsaas 7y ago
You are making a claim based on what's being an extreme application of a technology. We can push any technology to its limits but that doesn't mean that average usage should suffer from the edge case problems. We still have a rational media architecture with vector graphics support.
- tannhaeuser 7y ago
  Yeah I was hesitant to post because of the negative vibe to it, but still, if all we've achieved in the last decade or so is a replacement syntax for what was already possible 20 years ago on the web (Adobe SVG plugin) and with today's browser out of the box, we ought to search our soul what our goals are with the web platform. Because absurd CSS complexity with some 20 different layout models (or any bikeshedding on syntactial issues really) just serves to dilute any future effort for implementing parts of the web stack for no good reason other than browser lock-in.
  - tiborsaas 7y ago
    Standards are superior to plugins I count that as a clear win. I don't thing there's a great goal other than being an application platform for the masses. New toys will come, old might go, but more likely stay with the spec (hi: <marquee>). CSS layout had indeed evolved quite a bit (for the better), however we have great control now with flexbox and grid. They are much more than syntactic enhancements. I wouldn't worry about browser lock-in, if you build stuff for browsers you are already "locked in" by definition.
egypturnash 7y ago
I think it's just... art. And also a hobby. She likes doing this very fiddly, impractical way of working in her spare time. She could be putting together jigsaw puzzles, she could be gardening, she could be making intricate motorized sculptures out of cardboard, she could be doing all sorts of things. But instead she takes the CSS skills that she uses for her day job and sees how far she can push them. Hell, at this point I wouldn't be surprised if she's even had people approach her asking for CSS portrait commissions. I'm sure the number she's quoted them is pretty large, if so. I'm a pro artist who mostly use Illustrator and I am pretty sure I could reproduce any of her pieces in a fraction of the time it took her to type them out by hand. If I did, nobody would care, because I'd be using a tool actually made for art.

toddmorey 7y ago

I don’t think that’s fair, exactly. The point of this exercise is to show artistic expression by pushing a medium outside of its intended use. There’s also an artist that paints in MS Excel, for example. SVG is an incredible and underrated format. You can create illustrations in svg with modern graphics tools, yet still hack and animate them with css and js. And CSS Houdini is a really exciting development, too. Some things about the web platform are frustrating for sure, but this sort of project isn’t any kind of statement on the effort required to build modern web graphics and illustrations because you’d never approach it this way. It’s just a fun puzzle for the artist, and every tech and medium has examples of this sort of thing.

SanchoPanda 7y ago
The amazing MS Excel artist mentioned can be found here: https://pasokonga.com/ https://pasokonga.com/

tiborsaas 7y ago

You are making a claim based on what's being an extreme application of a technology. We can push any technology to its limits but that doesn't mean that average usage should suffer from the edge case problems. We still have a rational media architecture with vector graphics support.

tannhaeuser 7y ago
Yeah I was hesitant to post because of the negative vibe to it, but still, if all we've achieved in the last decade or so is a replacement syntax for what was already possible 20 years ago on the web (Adobe SVG plugin) and with today's browser out of the box, we ought to search our soul what our goals are with the web platform. Because absurd CSS complexity with some 20 different layout models (or any bikeshedding on syntactial issues really) just serves to dilute any future effort for implementing parts of the web stack for no good reason other than browser lock-in.
- tiborsaas 7y ago
  Standards are superior to plugins I count that as a clear win. I don't thing there's a great goal other than being an application platform for the masses. New toys will come, old might go, but more likely stay with the spec (hi: <marquee>). CSS layout had indeed evolved quite a bit (for the better), however we have great control now with flexbox and grid. They are much more than syntactic enhancements. I wouldn't worry about browser lock-in, if you build stuff for browsers you are already "locked in" by definition.

egypturnash 7y ago

I think it's just... art. And also a hobby. She likes doing this very fiddly, impractical way of working in her spare time. She could be putting together jigsaw puzzles, she could be gardening, she could be making intricate motorized sculptures out of cardboard, she could be doing all sorts of things. But instead she takes the CSS skills that she uses for her day job and sees how far she can push them. Hell, at this point I wouldn't be surprised if she's even had people approach her asking for CSS portrait commissions. I'm sure the number she's quoted them is pretty large, if so. I'm a pro artist who mostly use Illustrator and I am pretty sure I could reproduce any of her pieces in a fraction of the time it took her to type them out by hand. If I did, nobody would care, because I'd be using a tool actually made for art.