5 ms·

Ahh... I think we all miss Big Stevey. He role was never replaced and it's a shame for our entire community. I'm glad this was posted. It was written four ye

Ahh... I think we all miss Big Stevey. He role was never replaced and it's a shame for our entire community. I'm glad this was posted. It was written four years ago (Feb. 2007), and his quote is, "[The NBL] is going to arrive very soon (timeline: 18-24 months ...)" He later gave away that he was thinking the NBL was to be server-side Javascript. You have to hand it to him; that was a great guess, even if the timeline was off.

rryyan 16y ago
Maybe you're already aware of this, but a few months ago he started occasionally posting again -- here's his "I'm back" post: http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2010/07/blogger-finger.html http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2010/07/blogger-finger.html. That said, I miss his longer-form and more frequent posts too.
- twism 16y ago
  I wonder how he feels about clojure after ~6 months.
  - kotrin 16y ago
    If he still believes in what he said in this article, he probably likes it but does not think it will be the "Next Big Language".
harryh 16y ago
How was that a great guess? Certainly things could change, but very very very few people are doing server side JS right now. That could change, but I'm still pretty skeptical. Node.js (if that's what you're thinking of) is still very much in the experimental stage.
- jganetsk 16y ago
  This coming from the guy who used to work on Google Apps Script.
- knowtheory 16y ago
  Incidentally, i actually am doing server side javascript, but on Rhino, instead of node. I'm certain that Stevey meant Rhino, rather than node when he wrote that particular blog post.
  - dkarl 16y ago
    Rhino makes sense given "Rule #5: The Kitchen Sink" and "Rule #6: Multi-Platform."
  - mrfabbri 16y ago
    he definitely meant Rhino, as in Rhino on Rails http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2007/06/rhino-on-rails.html http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2007/06/rhino-on-rails.html
- yesbabyyes 16y ago
  He doesn't say it will be ubiquitous in that timeframe. You'd have to be pretty crazy to think that. He means it will arrive. Which is correct. The thing is, javascript is what's available in all devices. And it's a pretty nice language.
  - jshen 16y ago
    it's also showing up in other things. I believe KDE is using it as the primary scripting language for their stuff. Apple has dipped it's toe in that water with the dashboard widgets. etc
    - harryh 16y ago
      Another good example is Google using it for their scripting project for Google Docs. Works using Rhino on the JVM. I used to work on this project. It's pretty rad from a tech standpoint.
    - whatusername 16y ago
      A couple of IBM/Tivoli products (TDI and TAM ESSO) use it as the scripting language as well.
- CrabDude 16y ago
  LOL. I guess landing in every Palm phone currently in production with the full backing and weight of HP is considered "still very much in the experimental phase." Somebody probably isn't a very good Javascript programmer. =P Wait till they make their Feb 9th announcement too. http://developer.palm.com/index.php?id=2109 http://developer.palm.com/index.php?id=2109 http://www.google.com/search?q=palm+feb+9 http://www.google.com/search?q=palm+feb+9
megaduck 16y ago
Looking at Yegge's projects, I think NBL was just "javascript". The first big one was a rails clone on Rhino, which he talked about but never released (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QD9XQm_Jd4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QD9XQm_Jd4). After that, he started building a system for extending emacs with JS, named "ejacs". It never got fully baked, but the effort produced the very nice js2-mode. Details here: http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2008/11/ejacs-javascript-interpreter-for-emacs.html http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2008/11/ejacs-javascript-int... So, I think NBL was just "Javascript". Awesome call. Despite the problems with the standards process, JS has exploded in popularity over the past three years.
6ren 16y ago
JS doesn't have optional static type-checking, does it?
- dotandimet 16y ago
  I think Actionscript does, and back when this was written, it looked like Javascript was also going to - https://developer.mozilla.org/presentations/xtech2006/javascript/ https://developer.mozilla.org/presentations/xtech2006/javasc... The standards people have since pulled back from the more radical designs (i.e, instead of going with Javascript 4, aiming for Javascript "Harmony").
sireat 16y ago
He was off on one item for sure: good tools for Javascript OUTSIDE web development. I am currently in the middle of a 100k(not all mine) LOC embbeded Javascript project consisting of multiple files and it is rough going. Eclipse IDE for JavaScript Web Developers is the crutch I am currently using, it feels better than most commercial packages I tried(Aptana, Komodo, etc.), but that is not saying much. What I want most is the ability to reliably zoom in and out of functions, but the indexing over multiple files is quite shoddy. The bad habits Javascript encourages make for frustrating reading of code (like where did that foo.bar just come from, if bar was not a property in the initial declaration of foo). Not everybody reads Crockford... Until Javascript is feasible on larger projects, it will not be general purpose NBL.

rryyan 16y ago

Maybe you're already aware of this, but a few months ago he started occasionally posting again -- here's his "I'm back" post: http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2010/07/blogger-finger.html http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2010/07/blogger-finger.html. That said, I miss his longer-form and more frequent posts too.

twism 16y ago
I wonder how he feels about clojure after ~6 months.
- kotrin 16y ago
  If he still believes in what he said in this article, he probably likes it but does not think it will be the "Next Big Language".

harryh 16y ago

How was that a great guess? Certainly things could change, but very very very few people are doing server side JS right now. That could change, but I'm still pretty skeptical. Node.js (if that's what you're thinking of) is still very much in the experimental stage.

jganetsk 16y ago
This coming from the guy who used to work on Google Apps Script.
knowtheory 16y ago
Incidentally, i actually am doing server side javascript, but on Rhino, instead of node. I'm certain that Stevey meant Rhino, rather than node when he wrote that particular blog post.
- dkarl 16y ago
  Rhino makes sense given "Rule #5: The Kitchen Sink" and "Rule #6: Multi-Platform."
- mrfabbri 16y ago
  he definitely meant Rhino, as in Rhino on Rails http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2007/06/rhino-on-rails.html http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2007/06/rhino-on-rails.html
yesbabyyes 16y ago
He doesn't say it will be ubiquitous in that timeframe. You'd have to be pretty crazy to think that. He means it will arrive. Which is correct. The thing is, javascript is what's available in all devices. And it's a pretty nice language.
- jshen 16y ago
  it's also showing up in other things. I believe KDE is using it as the primary scripting language for their stuff. Apple has dipped it's toe in that water with the dashboard widgets. etc
  - harryh 16y ago
    Another good example is Google using it for their scripting project for Google Docs. Works using Rhino on the JVM. I used to work on this project. It's pretty rad from a tech standpoint.
  - whatusername 16y ago
    A couple of IBM/Tivoli products (TDI and TAM ESSO) use it as the scripting language as well.
CrabDude 16y ago
LOL. I guess landing in every Palm phone currently in production with the full backing and weight of HP is considered "still very much in the experimental phase." Somebody probably isn't a very good Javascript programmer. =P Wait till they make their Feb 9th announcement too. http://developer.palm.com/index.php?id=2109 http://developer.palm.com/index.php?id=2109 http://www.google.com/search?q=palm+feb+9 http://www.google.com/search?q=palm+feb+9

megaduck 16y ago

Looking at Yegge's projects, I think NBL was just "javascript". The first big one was a rails clone on Rhino, which he talked about but never released (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QD9XQm_Jd4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QD9XQm_Jd4). After that, he started building a system for extending emacs with JS, named "ejacs". It never got fully baked, but the effort produced the very nice js2-mode. Details here: http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2008/11/ejacs-javascript-interpreter-for-emacs.html http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2008/11/ejacs-javascript-int... So, I think NBL was just "Javascript". Awesome call. Despite the problems with the standards process, JS has exploded in popularity over the past three years.

6ren 16y ago

JS doesn't have optional static type-checking, does it?

dotandimet 16y ago
I think Actionscript does, and back when this was written, it looked like Javascript was also going to - https://developer.mozilla.org/presentations/xtech2006/javascript/ https://developer.mozilla.org/presentations/xtech2006/javasc... The standards people have since pulled back from the more radical designs (i.e, instead of going with Javascript 4, aiming for Javascript "Harmony").

sireat 16y ago

He was off on one item for sure: good tools for Javascript OUTSIDE web development. I am currently in the middle of a 100k(not all mine) LOC embbeded Javascript project consisting of multiple files and it is rough going. Eclipse IDE for JavaScript Web Developers is the crutch I am currently using, it feels better than most commercial packages I tried(Aptana, Komodo, etc.), but that is not saying much. What I want most is the ability to reliably zoom in and out of functions, but the indexing over multiple files is quite shoddy. The bad habits Javascript encourages make for frustrating reading of code (like where did that foo.bar just come from, if bar was not a property in the initial declaration of foo). Not everybody reads Crockford... Until Javascript is feasible on larger projects, it will not be general purpose NBL.