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As a chinese, this kind of comment makes me hate the west even more. I have no control over my government. Zero. 0. Do you understand the concept of 0? Thats th

by netok 7y ago

As a chinese, this kind of comment makes me hate the west even more. I have no control over my government. Zero. 0. Do you understand the concept of 0? Thats the amount of influence I have over any government matter. And you people being racist pos because there is nothing I can do about my gov. Wtf do you want?

mighty_bander 7y ago
I think the question is, how much control do you want over your government? Do you want them doing this stuff? I come from a country with a stronger democracy than the US and governments will fall over stuff like human rights violations, if they don't properly punish the perpetrators.
mrpopo 7y ago
I am sorry that you think like that, but the government is nothing without its people. The moment you start saying there is nothing you can do is the moment you lose. Russian dissidents etc. Chinese middle-class is complacently trading freedom for comfort. American and European middle-class too, for that matter.
- sabas123 7y ago
  I feel it is really unfair to blame chinese individuals like this, can we blame American's for all of their terrible influences they have had around the world too then?
  - _iyig 7y ago
    There is a difference between blaming someone for the actions of a government over which they have little control, and suggesting that it’s possible to work toward a better system. Nobody blamed the Civil Rights Movement for segregation; though they lived in a time when Jim Crow was law, they did all they could to defeat it. I’d also suggest there’s a difference between acceptance of bad government action, even if you don’t or can’t actively oppose it, and active defense of such action.
- computerex 7y ago
  I think that's sending out the wrong message. There is plenty of shit that happens in the U.S and most people don't go out of the comforts of their homes after a long day of work to affect change in government. And that's in the U.S, where protest is protected by the constitution. Someone in China would be in considerable danger to speak out against the government. The Chinese people are amazing, it is the Chinese government that is fucked up.
jai_ 7y ago
Why do you feel that Chinese citizens as a whole have no influence of the actions of their government?
- type0 7y ago
  Feel what!? You need to look up how the structure of the citizen control by the party functions out there, even if you wanted there's no wiggle room for that.
computerex 7y ago
No one is criticizing the Chinese people who have zero control over their authoritarian government. The Chinese people are humans just like any other person on Earth, whether from America or Canada or Nigeria or India or anywhere. When people criticize China, they are almost universally criticizing the Chinese government, because of their double standards, shady practices, lack of respect for individual privacy/sovereignty, ethnic cleansing in xinjiang. I love the Chinese people, whereas I hate the Chinese government.
- sidibe 7y ago
  CCP has succeeded in making the Chinese government an important part of Chinese people's identity. I've noticed even open minded Chinese people who have lived abroad for years tend to feel a little like insults on Chinese government are personal.
_iyig 7y ago
>And you people being racist pos In what way was the parent comment racist?
mb_72 7y ago
> As a chinese, this kind of comment makes me hate the west even more. I have no control over my government. That right there is exactly the response your government would want you to have. You already 'hate the west', and now even more because of what I wrote? That seems unreasonable to me, and there was not one racist mention in my comment either. If 'my' government (in Australia) were pulling these kind of stunts in 'my' name, damn right I would be doing something about it. In fact, I already do something about my community's shabby treatment of the First Australians (financially and lobbying wise). I feel we, the people, have a responsibility to ourselves and other humans, irrespective of country of origin, culture or background, to resist and oppose transgressions by the governments who represent us.
- zajd 7y ago
  So we shouldn't hire Australians until they actually fix the situation with their indigenous peoples? Why are you assuming that the average Chinese engineer doesn't resist and oppose transgressions by the government? "The west" is not a race, it's not racism to hate the west, it's just the result of the blatant hypocrisy these sorts of statements display. Imagine if Americans started to refuse to hire Australians because of their recent crackdown on press privacy?
- dang 7y ago
  Please don't take HN threads further into political and nationalistic flamewar. This sort of rhetoric never leads anywhere interesting. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
anoncake 7y ago
It's only zero if you exclude actions that are unlikely to work while requiring great sacrifices and/or likely to get you killed. Of course, no one should blame you for not: - Joining/founding an underground resistance group - Distributing anti-government propaganda - Rising through the ranks of the party until you're influential. - Emigrating (This won't directly influence your government. But losing skilled workers (I assume you are one) harms the economy, making a revolution more likely. - If that is not possible, being as unproductive as you can get away with. - Becoming friends with high-ranking officials, then influence them. - Protesting. You can technically make sure you won't get punished by setting yourself on fire. > And you people being racist pos because there is nothing I can do about my gov. Wtf do you want? No one's being racist here. The entity people don't trust is the Chinese government. Governments act through the people they govern so that distrust extends to your potentially involuntary actions (but not to your character). Note that Gitlab doesn't trust employees living in China independently of their ethnicity.
munmaek 7y ago
Who is being racist here? Criticizing a government apparatus isn’t racist. I don’t know why every single time a westerner criticizes the PRC, they act like we hate all Chinese people. Nobody here has a problem with Chinese people in general. Hopefully all of us can separate a nation’s people from their government... The problem is with the PRC’s government.
- lentil_soup 7y ago
  "Nobody here has a problem with Chinese people in general" The link this whole discussion is about is about banning Chinese people. Not the government, not even people that work for the government, just "Chinese people in general"
  - munmaek 7y ago
    ...because of the PRC. This whole discussion is because of the PRC, and having ties to family members living under the PRC.
    - Aunche 7y ago
      "I'm not against hiring black people, just those who live in areas controlled by gangs or have family members who live in these areas."
      - munmaek 7y ago
        This is an apples to oranges comparison. The ticket raised on gitlab is specifically about Chinese and Russian nationals, but this would also apply to Australians (they can be compelled, legally, to build backdoors upon request of the government). If I were in charge of a non-trivial company I certainly would not hire an australian national. This same exact argument would apply for a white person from China who has family or other assets in China, and thus has leverage that can be used against them by the current totalitarian regime. If the US government enacted a law similar to Australia where we could be compelled to build secret backdoors, then foreign companies probably wouldn't hire an American either. This really has little to do with race, and everything to do with risk and governments. We would still be discussing a ban on hiring Chinese nationals even if China -weren't- almost completely homogeneous in race; it's basically irrelevant.
el_cujo 7y ago
>I have no control over my government. Zero. 0. Do you understand the concept of 0? Thats the amount of influence I have over any government matter. Then you should be more pissed off at your own government and screwed up system than the people who are pointing how that the system you live under is screwed up.

by netok 7y ago

mighty_bander 7y ago

I think the question is, how much control do you want over your government? Do you want them doing this stuff? I come from a country with a stronger democracy than the US and governments will fall over stuff like human rights violations, if they don't properly punish the perpetrators.

mrpopo 7y ago

I am sorry that you think like that, but the government is nothing without its people. The moment you start saying there is nothing you can do is the moment you lose. Russian dissidents etc. Chinese middle-class is complacently trading freedom for comfort. American and European middle-class too, for that matter.

sabas123 7y ago
I feel it is really unfair to blame chinese individuals like this, can we blame American's for all of their terrible influences they have had around the world too then?
- _iyig 7y ago
  There is a difference between blaming someone for the actions of a government over which they have little control, and suggesting that it’s possible to work toward a better system. Nobody blamed the Civil Rights Movement for segregation; though they lived in a time when Jim Crow was law, they did all they could to defeat it. I’d also suggest there’s a difference between acceptance of bad government action, even if you don’t or can’t actively oppose it, and active defense of such action.
computerex 7y ago
I think that's sending out the wrong message. There is plenty of shit that happens in the U.S and most people don't go out of the comforts of their homes after a long day of work to affect change in government. And that's in the U.S, where protest is protected by the constitution. Someone in China would be in considerable danger to speak out against the government. The Chinese people are amazing, it is the Chinese government that is fucked up.

jai_ 7y ago

Why do you feel that Chinese citizens as a whole have no influence of the actions of their government?

type0 7y ago
Feel what!? You need to look up how the structure of the citizen control by the party functions out there, even if you wanted there's no wiggle room for that.

computerex 7y ago

No one is criticizing the Chinese people who have zero control over their authoritarian government. The Chinese people are humans just like any other person on Earth, whether from America or Canada or Nigeria or India or anywhere. When people criticize China, they are almost universally criticizing the Chinese government, because of their double standards, shady practices, lack of respect for individual privacy/sovereignty, ethnic cleansing in xinjiang. I love the Chinese people, whereas I hate the Chinese government.

sidibe 7y ago
CCP has succeeded in making the Chinese government an important part of Chinese people's identity. I've noticed even open minded Chinese people who have lived abroad for years tend to feel a little like insults on Chinese government are personal.

_iyig 7y ago

>And you people being racist pos In what way was the parent comment racist?

mb_72 7y ago

> As a chinese, this kind of comment makes me hate the west even more. I have no control over my government. That right there is exactly the response your government would want you to have. You already 'hate the west', and now even more because of what I wrote? That seems unreasonable to me, and there was not one racist mention in my comment either. If 'my' government (in Australia) were pulling these kind of stunts in 'my' name, damn right I would be doing something about it. In fact, I already do something about my community's shabby treatment of the First Australians (financially and lobbying wise). I feel we, the people, have a responsibility to ourselves and other humans, irrespective of country of origin, culture or background, to resist and oppose transgressions by the governments who represent us.

zajd 7y ago
So we shouldn't hire Australians until they actually fix the situation with their indigenous peoples? Why are you assuming that the average Chinese engineer doesn't resist and oppose transgressions by the government? "The west" is not a race, it's not racism to hate the west, it's just the result of the blatant hypocrisy these sorts of statements display. Imagine if Americans started to refuse to hire Australians because of their recent crackdown on press privacy?
dang 7y ago
Please don't take HN threads further into political and nationalistic flamewar. This sort of rhetoric never leads anywhere interesting. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

anoncake 7y ago

It's only zero if you exclude actions that are unlikely to work while requiring great sacrifices and/or likely to get you killed. Of course, no one should blame you for not: - Joining/founding an underground resistance group - Distributing anti-government propaganda - Rising through the ranks of the party until you're influential. - Emigrating (This won't directly influence your government. But losing skilled workers (I assume you are one) harms the economy, making a revolution more likely. - If that is not possible, being as unproductive as you can get away with. - Becoming friends with high-ranking officials, then influence them. - Protesting. You can technically make sure you won't get punished by setting yourself on fire. > And you people being racist pos because there is nothing I can do about my gov. Wtf do you want? No one's being racist here. The entity people don't trust is the Chinese government. Governments act through the people they govern so that distrust extends to your potentially involuntary actions (but not to your character). Note that Gitlab doesn't trust employees living in China independently of their ethnicity.

munmaek 7y ago

Who is being racist here? Criticizing a government apparatus isn’t racist. I don’t know why every single time a westerner criticizes the PRC, they act like we hate all Chinese people. Nobody here has a problem with Chinese people in general. Hopefully all of us can separate a nation’s people from their government... The problem is with the PRC’s government.

lentil_soup 7y ago
"Nobody here has a problem with Chinese people in general" The link this whole discussion is about is about banning Chinese people. Not the government, not even people that work for the government, just "Chinese people in general"
- munmaek 7y ago
  ...because of the PRC. This whole discussion is because of the PRC, and having ties to family members living under the PRC.
  - Aunche 7y ago
    "I'm not against hiring black people, just those who live in areas controlled by gangs or have family members who live in these areas."
    - munmaek 7y ago
      This is an apples to oranges comparison. The ticket raised on gitlab is specifically about Chinese and Russian nationals, but this would also apply to Australians (they can be compelled, legally, to build backdoors upon request of the government). If I were in charge of a non-trivial company I certainly would not hire an australian national. This same exact argument would apply for a white person from China who has family or other assets in China, and thus has leverage that can be used against them by the current totalitarian regime. If the US government enacted a law similar to Australia where we could be compelled to build secret backdoors, then foreign companies probably wouldn't hire an American either. This really has little to do with race, and everything to do with risk and governments. We would still be discussing a ban on hiring Chinese nationals even if China -weren't- almost completely homogeneous in race; it's basically irrelevant.

el_cujo 7y ago

>I have no control over my government. Zero. 0. Do you understand the concept of 0? Thats the amount of influence I have over any government matter. Then you should be more pissed off at your own government and screwed up system than the people who are pointing how that the system you live under is screwed up.