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Curious as the way I see it it's very often China who is the 'initiator', eg internment of Muslims, stealing of territory in South China sea, debt-trap diplomac

• Quarrelsome 7y ago
  why do you think Trump likes to talk about China? He's more likely to talk about camps in China than he is about the homeless in Los Angeles. One is a problem completely out of his control, another is one he could easily mitigate. You wonder why that is?
  • varjag 7y ago
    Trump never brings up human rights issues in China (or elsewhere), so your point is moot.
    • Quarrelsome 7y ago
      My point is that people like to talk smack about stuff elsewhere they can't change to detract people from injustices they CAN impact. Its the same with China, what better way to avoid awkward conversations about Taiwan, Hong Kong or the Uighurs than talk about how "unfair" the West is being? As a Westerner, while its important to understand about the nasty side of China is somewhat pointless to endlessly focus on it because its not a problem we have the capacity to solve. There are issues that we can obtain Chinese buy-in on like climate-change (we all live on this planet) so we should focus on things like this where we can work together so we can forge better ties instead of focusing on what we don't like about each other. Lets not do evil-empire all over again.
  • mb_72 7y ago
    I'm not American, and don't follow what Trump says or doesn't say that closely. Myself, I do criticise my own government, protest on the streets, and also donate money to causes that work in opposition, mostly, to the current government. I've also made business decisions that involve much less interaction with mainland Chinese businesses and customers precisely because I disagree with the mainland Chinese governments way of doing things. Maybe it's cost me some money, but I sleep better at night.
• EastToWest 7y ago
  How do you expect a Chinese to respond to this kind of "Have you stopped beating your wife" questions? Whether some of the view points are valid in the first place (at least the second or third one) is deeply contested to Chinese. If you're just parroting Western media view points without showing at least some understanding of Chinese view points, you will likely not get any genuine answers.
  • mb_72 7y ago
    I've lived in China for some time, and have sources of information other than just 'Western media'. Are you saying the article I linked in, for one example, is not accurate? Are you saying the UN is wrong with their information? I have no doubt the Chinese have a different point of view; they have much less complete information on the subjects I mentioned, and others. But, yes, of course the point is that the poster likely isn't doing anything as they are partially funded by the Chinese government, and also are benefiting from all the aggressive actions their government is taking inside and outside of China.
    • DiogenesKynikos 7y ago
      It's very disputable whether or not China is "stealing" territory in the South China Sea or engaging in debt-trap diplomacy. The latter accusation is mostly hypothetical at the moment, based on a general fear that Chinese loans for infrastructure investment might in the future be abused to trap poor countries in debt. More generally, what's the point of raising these accusations? When you speak to an American, do you demand that they apologize for their government's illegal invasion of Iraq (and the ensuing hundreds of thousands of deaths) or support for Sunni radicals in Syria?
      • kortilla 7y ago
        “But America did X” is not a valid argument when discussing what China is doing.
      • elefanten 7y ago
        The South China Sea part really isn't debatable. Absolutely everyone outside China thinks the Line is bullshit.
• duguxu 7y ago
  Some prequel of the "initiation" https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:%E6%96%B0%E7%96%86%E7%BB%B4%E5%90%BE%E5%B0%94%E8%87%AA%E6%B2%BB%E5%8C%BA%E6%9A%B4%E5%8A%9B%E6%81%90%E6%80%96%E6%B4%BB%E5%8A%A8%E5%92%8C%E5%8F%8D%E6%81%90%E8%A1%8C%E5%8A%A8 https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:%E6%96%B0%E7%96%86%E7...
• netok 7y ago
  As a chinese, this kind of comment makes me hate the west even more. I have no control over my government. Zero. 0. Do you understand the concept of 0? Thats the amount of influence I have over any government matter. And you people being racist pos because there is nothing I can do about my gov. Wtf do you want?
  • mighty_bander 7y ago
    I think the question is, how much control do you want over your government? Do you want them doing this stuff? I come from a country with a stronger democracy than the US and governments will fall over stuff like human rights violations, if they don't properly punish the perpetrators.
  • mrpopo 7y ago
    I am sorry that you think like that, but the government is nothing without its people. The moment you start saying there is nothing you can do is the moment you lose. Russian dissidents etc. Chinese middle-class is complacently trading freedom for comfort. American and European middle-class too, for that matter.
    • sabas123 7y ago
      I feel it is really unfair to blame chinese individuals like this, can we blame American's for all of their terrible influences they have had around the world too then?
      • _iyig 7y ago
        There is a difference between blaming someone for the actions of a government over which they have little control, and suggesting that it’s possible to work toward a better system. Nobody blamed the Civil Rights Movement for segregation; though they lived in a time when Jim Crow was law, they did all they could to defeat it. I’d also suggest there’s a difference between acceptance of bad government action, even if you don’t or can’t actively oppose it, and active defense of such action.
    • 7y ago
• arczyx 7y ago
  >Presuming that you are aware of these occurrences, do you agree with your government's positions and actions, and - if not - what actions, if any, do you take to make it clear your opposition? I'm not from China and I disagree with the action of the China's government you listed above. However I wonder why this kind of opinion (aka the Chinese should be responsible for their government) is not commonly held against the USA? The USA had invaded countries based on false pretext, toppling legitimate governments, and supported dictators all around the world. Why then, this "the Chinese are responsible for their authoritarian government" argument was not commonly held against the citizens of the USA, who supposedly live in democracy and therefore better equipped to actually change the situation?
  • mb_72 7y ago
    Well, I at least try to be consistent, and do query my USA friends about the current administration and it's actions. Recent political changes in the USA have made it the norm to have similar populist leaders or parties gain strength all around the world, it's actually quite distressing for me to see.
  • bart_spoon 7y ago
    > However I wonder why this kind of opinion (aka the Chinese should be responsible for their government) is not commonly held against the USA? Why do you think it isn't?
  • kortilla 7y ago
    Why are posts questioning China’s actions met with whataboutism regarding the US? The comment you replied to has nothing to do with the US.
    • TiNiPoNi 7y ago
      Because Gitlab is an American company and now they're playing the American politis card.
  • el_cujo 7y ago
    Because the USA has an independent media that is very critical of its government while China doesn't (at least not on the scale as the USA's main stream media). I mean maybe if you're a conspiracy theorist you could say it's just controlled opposition or a distraction, but in the context of this argument at least the US media is unafraid to criticize or even just straight up mock the government and it's leaders, that has to count for something compared to China.
• Nasrudith 7y ago
  Really aggressors project and victim blame as standard practice to justify themselves and their travesties. This goes back to Rome's war with Carthage and probably well before then. Nationalists of all stripes get very angry when you point out their nation's crimes. Poland made outright illegal to point out that there were in fact Polish collaborators in the Holocaust for instance. It is true that the country was overwhelmingly the victim and Nazis were responsible but cutting off this self reflection only looks sinister. When 'face' culture is involved it seems to be further. Numerous sister city relationships were ended unilaterally by Japan for acknowledging the "comfort women" - ironically losing far more face internationally. Add in outright totalitarianism under a dictator and criticism is seen as an outright threat.
• dang 7y ago
  You took this thread way into flamewar. Please don't do that again. We don't want any flamewars here, and certainly not nationalistic ones. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html