5 ms·

Wait, am I to understand that this law says I cannot boycott doing business with businesses located in Israel? I am in the US, so can not say, "I disagree with

Wait, am I to understand that this law says I cannot boycott doing business with businesses located in Israel? I am in the US, so can not say, "I disagree with how the Israeli government is treating Palestine and thus don't want to do business with any entity located there."?

microcolonel 7y ago
> Wait, am I to understand that this law says I cannot boycott doing business with businesses located in Israel? No. That link the parent commenter shared is a very good overview: it basically means that your company will not receive special corporate tax consideration if your company: Enters agreements to refuse or actually refuses to do business with or in Israel or with blacklisted companies. Enters agreements to discriminate or actually discriminates against other persons based on race, religion, sex, national origin or nationality. Enters agreements to furnish or actually furnishes information about business relationships with or in Israel or with blacklisted companies. Enters agreements to furnish or actually furnishes of information about the race, religion, sex, or national origin of another person. (e.g. “hey [anti-Semitic company], this competing businessperson is a Jew, if you were wondering”) In any of these cases, there are exceptions and matters of interpretation. Whether or not you think this is appropriate for the government, it's not as simple as “you can't engage in a boycott as a matter of personal conscience”.
- thekevan 7y ago
  >your company will not receive special corporate tax consideration if your company: >Enters agreements to refuse or actually refuses to do business with or in Israel The link does actually include the penalties, which are far more than just losing special tax considerations. It includes hefty fines and even imprisonment under the TRA. The "just losing tax consideration" part is only under the EAR. I understand that part. It's the fact that they say I cannot boycott Israel independently. I'm still confused at how this can be fully Constitutional. Say I care a lot about the Palestinians and object to their treatment by the government and military of Israel. Say I make widgets wholesale for people to resell retail. So I say, if you buy my product and resell it you make money and your government takes some of that money, as is normal. Therefore, I will not sell to any company that sells this in Israel as I do not want to my product to be used to make money for a government whose actions I condemn. I don't care if you are a Jew, a Christian, an Arab and/or even a Palestinian, if you want to sell my product in Israel and taxes which go to the Israeli government will be collected on that, I'm not selling it to you. Not just certain companies within Israel, all of them. Anyone who sells my product and thus makes money for the Israel government, nope, I'm not doing it. That's the part I have a problem with. If I don't actively try to stop Israel from doing anything but want to take an active role in not helping them in any way, I'm breaking the law? I don't see if how I want to act independently the Arab League but what I want to do aligns with part of what they want to do, that is a problem? I should be able to not support what I see as a bad actor.
  - type0 7y ago
    Honestly, I also do not understand their wording on that. Getting on board with foreign boycott is not ok that much is clear, but exercising your freedom of affiliation as a company is fine as long as it doesn't contradict US foreign policies. So if you don't want to contradict those you shouldn't boycott them if you don't your gov deciding that your decision is not independent. I mean you never know, but stranger things have happened. Just because of that I generally advise foreign entrepreneurs to think hundreds of times over before they go ahead to open their offices in US.
_n_b_ 7y ago
If you're in the US, you can decide to do that. The law restricts your business with foreign entities that might engage in a boycott. The nuances of what might trigger these regulations are not always straightforward (look at https://www.bis.doc.gov/index.php/enforcement/oac/7-enforcement/578-examples-of-boycott-requests https://www.bis.doc.gov/index.php/enforcement/oac/7-enforcem...) but normally you just have to avoid "bad words" in contracts, RFQs, etc. I would note my understanding is that fines for non-compliance have historically been relatively light and therefore, to my knowledge, these regulations have not been seriously tested in court in recent times. (And the article I read suggested there was a causal link between those two facts.)
- thekevan 7y ago
  Yeah, I also can't quite reconcile that. I have a hard time believing that the government could do this but the way I read it says that if I said: As a business, I disagree with the human rights violations the government of China is engaged in. I am again Saudis Arabia's ban of alcohol on its residents, its treatment of gay people--including death for simply being gay and the way it withholds rights from women. I also deplore Israel's treatment of the Palestinians, including the demolishing of houses. Therefore, I will not allow my product to be sold in a way which results in any of these governments collecting tax on it, this supporting the government. The way this reads, it seems the government can say, "Whoa, you can't to that to Israel though." and ignore the other two. Unfair and prejudicial in my opinion.
apta 7y ago
They'll simply accuse you of being an anti-Semite ;-)
- thekevan 7y ago
  Yeah, even if I have plenty of Jewish customers in the rest of the world. What if I am Jewish?

microcolonel 7y ago

> Wait, am I to understand that this law says I cannot boycott doing business with businesses located in Israel? No. That link the parent commenter shared is a very good overview: it basically means that your company will not receive special corporate tax consideration if your company: Enters agreements to refuse or actually refuses to do business with or in Israel or with blacklisted companies. Enters agreements to discriminate or actually discriminates against other persons based on race, religion, sex, national origin or nationality. Enters agreements to furnish or actually furnishes information about business relationships with or in Israel or with blacklisted companies. Enters agreements to furnish or actually furnishes of information about the race, religion, sex, or national origin of another person. (e.g. “hey [anti-Semitic company], this competing businessperson is a Jew, if you were wondering”) In any of these cases, there are exceptions and matters of interpretation. Whether or not you think this is appropriate for the government, it's not as simple as “you can't engage in a boycott as a matter of personal conscience”.

thekevan 7y ago
>your company will not receive special corporate tax consideration if your company: >Enters agreements to refuse or actually refuses to do business with or in Israel The link does actually include the penalties, which are far more than just losing special tax considerations. It includes hefty fines and even imprisonment under the TRA. The "just losing tax consideration" part is only under the EAR. I understand that part. It's the fact that they say I cannot boycott Israel independently. I'm still confused at how this can be fully Constitutional. Say I care a lot about the Palestinians and object to their treatment by the government and military of Israel. Say I make widgets wholesale for people to resell retail. So I say, if you buy my product and resell it you make money and your government takes some of that money, as is normal. Therefore, I will not sell to any company that sells this in Israel as I do not want to my product to be used to make money for a government whose actions I condemn. I don't care if you are a Jew, a Christian, an Arab and/or even a Palestinian, if you want to sell my product in Israel and taxes which go to the Israeli government will be collected on that, I'm not selling it to you. Not just certain companies within Israel, all of them. Anyone who sells my product and thus makes money for the Israel government, nope, I'm not doing it. That's the part I have a problem with. If I don't actively try to stop Israel from doing anything but want to take an active role in not helping them in any way, I'm breaking the law? I don't see if how I want to act independently the Arab League but what I want to do aligns with part of what they want to do, that is a problem? I should be able to not support what I see as a bad actor.
- type0 7y ago
  Honestly, I also do not understand their wording on that. Getting on board with foreign boycott is not ok that much is clear, but exercising your freedom of affiliation as a company is fine as long as it doesn't contradict US foreign policies. So if you don't want to contradict those you shouldn't boycott them if you don't your gov deciding that your decision is not independent. I mean you never know, but stranger things have happened. Just because of that I generally advise foreign entrepreneurs to think hundreds of times over before they go ahead to open their offices in US.

_n_b_ 7y ago

If you're in the US, you can decide to do that. The law restricts your business with foreign entities that might engage in a boycott. The nuances of what might trigger these regulations are not always straightforward (look at https://www.bis.doc.gov/index.php/enforcement/oac/7-enforcement/578-examples-of-boycott-requests https://www.bis.doc.gov/index.php/enforcement/oac/7-enforcem...) but normally you just have to avoid "bad words" in contracts, RFQs, etc. I would note my understanding is that fines for non-compliance have historically been relatively light and therefore, to my knowledge, these regulations have not been seriously tested in court in recent times. (And the article I read suggested there was a causal link between those two facts.)

thekevan 7y ago
Yeah, I also can't quite reconcile that. I have a hard time believing that the government could do this but the way I read it says that if I said: As a business, I disagree with the human rights violations the government of China is engaged in. I am again Saudis Arabia's ban of alcohol on its residents, its treatment of gay people--including death for simply being gay and the way it withholds rights from women. I also deplore Israel's treatment of the Palestinians, including the demolishing of houses. Therefore, I will not allow my product to be sold in a way which results in any of these governments collecting tax on it, this supporting the government. The way this reads, it seems the government can say, "Whoa, you can't to that to Israel though." and ignore the other two. Unfair and prejudicial in my opinion.

apta 7y ago

They'll simply accuse you of being an anti-Semite ;-)

thekevan 7y ago
Yeah, even if I have plenty of Jewish customers in the rest of the world. What if I am Jewish?