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Trying to control nature will never work out in humanity's favor. That is precisely the same hubris that has landed us in this mess. Once we surrender to the no

by zahma 7y ago

Trying to control nature will never work out in humanity's favor. That is precisely the same hubris that has landed us in this mess. Once we surrender to the notion that we will capitalize on nature's response to our unwieldly use of technology, then we are only going to make matters worse. We simply do not understand the complexity of nature and should be skeptical of perceived benefits -- such as increased amounts of arable land -- as if that won't have consequences.

BurningFrog 7y ago
Humanity has controlled nature for thousands of years. We have achieved unthinkable progress in almost any thinkable area. I mean, I get your point: It's hard to control complex systems, and unintended consequences can and do happen. But we have a rather spectacular track record of powering through and figuring things out.
colechristensen 7y ago
Never? An enormous part of civilization is exactly wrestling for control of nature and succeeding. From prairie nomads to mega-cities our direction is clearly one of increasing control. The whole issue is about humans changing the climate. We already have incredible control of many complex systems, the planet's climate is just another system. It will take an incredible amount of resources to control but there should be no doubt as to if, only when. The earth is our garden, we have only to put ourselves to the task to make it bloom. The blocking point is our intentions and efforts not the possibility. You can't be burning down the Amazon for a quick dollar and trying to maintain the climate at the same time. We're so focused on arguing about whether or not we're having an effect and panicking about what that will be that we're not really trying at all to gain any control. True the climate is not a trained dog, it will not act on command, it is not a linear system that we can put one PID controller on and be done with it. It is complex, it has feedback system on top of feedback system, some negative, some positive, it's chaotic. None of that means we can't make it do what we want. We just have to focus and not spend our time on the stupidity that drives our everyday political process.
- TeMPOraL 7y ago
  The problem of taking control over complex systems the size of climate isn't about knowledge or technology; it's a coordination problem. We could be having climate jumping through hoops on command today, if we could coordinate at global scale instead of competing and sacrificing long-term benefits for next quarter rewards.

by zahma 7y ago

BurningFrog 7y ago

Humanity has controlled nature for thousands of years. We have achieved unthinkable progress in almost any thinkable area. I mean, I get your point: It's hard to control complex systems, and unintended consequences can and do happen. But we have a rather spectacular track record of powering through and figuring things out.

colechristensen 7y ago

Never? An enormous part of civilization is exactly wrestling for control of nature and succeeding. From prairie nomads to mega-cities our direction is clearly one of increasing control. The whole issue is about humans changing the climate. We already have incredible control of many complex systems, the planet's climate is just another system. It will take an incredible amount of resources to control but there should be no doubt as to if, only when. The earth is our garden, we have only to put ourselves to the task to make it bloom. The blocking point is our intentions and efforts not the possibility. You can't be burning down the Amazon for a quick dollar and trying to maintain the climate at the same time. We're so focused on arguing about whether or not we're having an effect and panicking about what that will be that we're not really trying at all to gain any control. True the climate is not a trained dog, it will not act on command, it is not a linear system that we can put one PID controller on and be done with it. It is complex, it has feedback system on top of feedback system, some negative, some positive, it's chaotic. None of that means we can't make it do what we want. We just have to focus and not spend our time on the stupidity that drives our everyday political process.

TeMPOraL 7y ago
The problem of taking control over complex systems the size of climate isn't about knowledge or technology; it's a coordination problem. We could be having climate jumping through hoops on command today, if we could coordinate at global scale instead of competing and sacrificing long-term benefits for next quarter rewards.