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People don't understand yet why you don't need as many public charging points as gas stations. People who buy EVs charge at home. Public charging ports are only

by Lendal 7y ago

People don't understand yet why you don't need as many public charging points as gas stations. People who buy EVs charge at home. Public charging ports are only used by people who don't live there. Edit: Yes people who don't have driveways still need them. Overall, not as much infrastructure as we needed with gas pumps. Everyone with gas cars needed public gas pumps, but only a subset of EVs need public charging stations.

sokoloff 7y ago
People who own homes with driveways or garages often discount the hurdle of renters and street parkers who often must rely solely on public chargers (or not buy an EV).
- natch 7y ago
  There are also chargers at many employers. Often free for employees. I’m not saying you’re wrong about it being a hurdle but often there are solutions.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- brewdad 7y ago
  It becomes another chapter in the chicken and egg game that has played out in the installation of chargers up to now. At some point, renters will see charging stations as a necessary box to tick when seeking a place to live much as per owners do now.
- jacquesm 7y ago
  In Amsterdam it goes the other way over time: special parking spots are reserved for EVs and come with charging ports. These are illegal to park a regular car in even if there are plenty of those empty and no spot to park an ICE car is available.
  - sokoloff 7y ago
    Which is generally supportive of Merkel's plan to increase public charging and goes against the "let them charge at home instead of using public chargers" sentiment.
chrisseaton 7y ago
> People who buy EVs charge at home. What if they don't have a garage or driveway? How do you charge at home when your only parking space is the street? Not everyone is a millionaire with their own private parking space and charging point. I don't understand how people think this works...
- natch 7y ago
  You charge at work or at a supercharger. Works great.
  - chrisseaton 7y ago
    What if you don't drive to work? Not everyone lives like you do.
    - Lendal 7y ago
      Again, you're missing the point. On purpose, I think. Everyone doesn't live the same way. That is true. That's not the point. The point is that all gasoline-powered cars must refuel at a public pump. Some EVs will charge at home. Therefore, NOT ALL EVs require a public charging station. Your argument proves my point.
      - chrisseaton 7y ago
        The article was 'we need to create lots of chargers' the comment was 'they aren't needed because if you're a millionaire with a driveway who drives to a tech employer with a private space with a charger every day you're fine'. That's what I'm saying isn't helpful for most people. Most people park on the street and take public transport to work and have no opportunity to charge. So we need the chargers. I'm sure it's fine for you - it's not for most people.
        Lendal 7y ago
        It depends on where these chargers are located. Areas where people own cars and park those cars on the street, that's where they're needed. They aren't needed in suburbs where people can plug them into their own homes. They're also not needed in areas where people don't own cars. I guess I inadvertently started a culture war where people without cars and driveways are really touchy and go on attack. Sorry about that.
YZF 7y ago
A lot of people in Europe live in big apartment buildings ... they may park in the street... how would they "charge at home"?
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- Lendal 7y ago
  Everyone? Does everyone in Europe live in apartment buildings?
  - chrisseaton 7y ago
    Did you mis-read the comment? They said 'a lot of people', you're asking about 'everyone.'
    - Lendal 7y ago
      Exactly. Thank you for making my point. Everyone driving an ICE vehicle must refuel at a public pump. Not everyone driving an EV needs to refuel at a public charging port. Therefore, fewer public charging ports are needed than gasoline pumps.
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
  - Ralfp 7y ago
    Not everyone, but thats how trends were in recent decades: people moving to large urban centers raising land prices in those and areas around making anything but apartment blocks unfeasible economically. In some places even single-house areas are being invaded by real-estate developers building multi-floor apartment buildings roght next to single-family houses.
  - freeflight 7y ago
    Not everyone, but most Germans actually do live in apartment buildings [0]. [0] https://www.deutschland.de/en/topic/life/lifestyle-cuisine/housing-in-germany https://www.deutschland.de/en/topic/life/lifestyle-cuisine/h...
natch 7y ago
>People who buy EVs charge at home. This statement is too absolute. Only some subset of people who buy EVs charge at home. (Clearly it’s good to have the option if possible.) But others charge at work (often for free) and at public chargers or Tesla superchargers.
- Lendal 7y ago
  It's not an absolute statement. It's a statement in support of the statement that not as many charging ports are needed as gasoline pumps. Another way to say it: 0% of ICE vehicles can be refueled at home. The percentage of EVs that can be refueled at home is significantly higher than 0%.
  - dragonwriter 7y ago
    > It's a statement in support of the statement that not as many charging ports are needed as gasoline pumps. On the other hand, the number of charging point minutes needed per 100 miles for an EV is much greater than the number of fuel pump minutes per 100 miles for an ICEV, so you need a very large percentage of EV charging to be done at home just to bring the number of charging points per EV needed to be equal to the number of gas pumps needed per ICEV.
  - skybrian 7y ago
    It seems like if there is one charger per car (whether you keep your car at home or in a garage) then that would be a lot more electric chargers than gas pumps? Gas pumps get shared between a lot of cars. This doesn't seem like a bad thing. It's nice to have your own charger.
mattigames 7y ago
Having the same number of public charging points than gas stations would incentive the adoption of Electric cars, people crave such comfort and saving costs (meaning the cost of putting a charge station at their home)

by Lendal 7y ago

sokoloff 7y ago

People who own homes with driveways or garages often discount the hurdle of renters and street parkers who often must rely solely on public chargers (or not buy an EV).

natch 7y ago
There are also chargers at many employers. Often free for employees. I’m not saying you’re wrong about it being a hurdle but often there are solutions.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
brewdad 7y ago
It becomes another chapter in the chicken and egg game that has played out in the installation of chargers up to now. At some point, renters will see charging stations as a necessary box to tick when seeking a place to live much as per owners do now.
jacquesm 7y ago
In Amsterdam it goes the other way over time: special parking spots are reserved for EVs and come with charging ports. These are illegal to park a regular car in even if there are plenty of those empty and no spot to park an ICE car is available.
- sokoloff 7y ago
  Which is generally supportive of Merkel's plan to increase public charging and goes against the "let them charge at home instead of using public chargers" sentiment.

chrisseaton 7y ago

> People who buy EVs charge at home. What if they don't have a garage or driveway? How do you charge at home when your only parking space is the street? Not everyone is a millionaire with their own private parking space and charging point. I don't understand how people think this works...

natch 7y ago
You charge at work or at a supercharger. Works great.
- chrisseaton 7y ago
  What if you don't drive to work? Not everyone lives like you do.
  - Lendal 7y ago
    Again, you're missing the point. On purpose, I think. Everyone doesn't live the same way. That is true. That's not the point. The point is that all gasoline-powered cars must refuel at a public pump. Some EVs will charge at home. Therefore, NOT ALL EVs require a public charging station. Your argument proves my point.
    - chrisseaton 7y ago
      The article was 'we need to create lots of chargers' the comment was 'they aren't needed because if you're a millionaire with a driveway who drives to a tech employer with a private space with a charger every day you're fine'. That's what I'm saying isn't helpful for most people. Most people park on the street and take public transport to work and have no opportunity to charge. So we need the chargers. I'm sure it's fine for you - it's not for most people.
      - Lendal 7y ago
        It depends on where these chargers are located. Areas where people own cars and park those cars on the street, that's where they're needed. They aren't needed in suburbs where people can plug them into their own homes. They're also not needed in areas where people don't own cars. I guess I inadvertently started a culture war where people without cars and driveways are really touchy and go on attack. Sorry about that.

YZF 7y ago

A lot of people in Europe live in big apartment buildings ... they may park in the street... how would they "charge at home"?

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
Lendal 7y ago
Everyone? Does everyone in Europe live in apartment buildings?
- chrisseaton 7y ago
  Did you mis-read the comment? They said 'a lot of people', you're asking about 'everyone.'
  - Lendal 7y ago
    Exactly. Thank you for making my point. Everyone driving an ICE vehicle must refuel at a public pump. Not everyone driving an EV needs to refuel at a public charging port. Therefore, fewer public charging ports are needed than gasoline pumps.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
- Ralfp 7y ago
  Not everyone, but thats how trends were in recent decades: people moving to large urban centers raising land prices in those and areas around making anything but apartment blocks unfeasible economically. In some places even single-house areas are being invaded by real-estate developers building multi-floor apartment buildings roght next to single-family houses.
- freeflight 7y ago
  Not everyone, but most Germans actually do live in apartment buildings [0]. [0] https://www.deutschland.de/en/topic/life/lifestyle-cuisine/housing-in-germany https://www.deutschland.de/en/topic/life/lifestyle-cuisine/h...

natch 7y ago

>People who buy EVs charge at home. This statement is too absolute. Only some subset of people who buy EVs charge at home. (Clearly it’s good to have the option if possible.) But others charge at work (often for free) and at public chargers or Tesla superchargers.

Lendal 7y ago
It's not an absolute statement. It's a statement in support of the statement that not as many charging ports are needed as gasoline pumps. Another way to say it: 0% of ICE vehicles can be refueled at home. The percentage of EVs that can be refueled at home is significantly higher than 0%.
- dragonwriter 7y ago
  > It's a statement in support of the statement that not as many charging ports are needed as gasoline pumps. On the other hand, the number of charging point minutes needed per 100 miles for an EV is much greater than the number of fuel pump minutes per 100 miles for an ICEV, so you need a very large percentage of EV charging to be done at home just to bring the number of charging points per EV needed to be equal to the number of gas pumps needed per ICEV.
- skybrian 7y ago
  It seems like if there is one charger per car (whether you keep your car at home or in a garage) then that would be a lot more electric chargers than gas pumps? Gas pumps get shared between a lot of cars. This doesn't seem like a bad thing. It's nice to have your own charger.

mattigames 7y ago

Having the same number of public charging points than gas stations would incentive the adoption of Electric cars, people crave such comfort and saving costs (meaning the cost of putting a charge station at their home)