5 ms·

Well, why the hell is electron/chromium using private APIs? That seems like the real problem here...

throw_m239339 7y ago
It's possible electron team isn't even aware chromium is doing that.
rvz 7y ago
Its looks as if the Electron team had the assumption that developers would be unlikely to distribute their Electron Mac apps via the App Store, but instead as a DMG or zip which doesn't require Apple reviewing private APIs.
- duxup 7y ago
  But they had to know it was happening at some point right?
  - jbverschoor 7y ago
    Ofcourse. But developers things they’re above anyone else and know better. At least most of them. And now someone says no to them, so they cry and post stuff.
- rdevnull 7y ago
  true and the Notarization of the DMGs works fine with electron. Perhaps this is also why Atom is not on the apple store.
jrochkind1 7y ago
Another interesting question is how Chrome itself gets approved for the Apple web store then, right? https://apps.apple.com/us/app/google-chrome/id535886823 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/google-chrome/id535886823
- ridiculous_fish 7y ago
  Presumably the iOS Chrome is not using Apple's private APIs.
  - saagarjha 7y ago
    Or it's using other private APIs that have they've managed to got through App Store review…
    - bdcravens 7y ago
      iOS Chrome isn't Chromium. It's wrapped mobile Safari.
      - saagarjha 7y ago
        I am aware.
        bdcravens 7y ago
        Then it's an off-topic discussion which has nothing to do with Chromium's use of private APIs.
        orf 7y ago
        Then why suggest that the reason Chrome is approved is because they sneak in private API usage?
        saagarjha 7y ago
        Popular applications often get passes for private API usage.
        orf 7y ago
        Private APIs they don’t need to use because it’s just a wrapper for Safari, as you’re aware?
skymt 7y ago
I started searching for the private identifiers listed in the blog post and ran across this document describing Chromium's Mac compositor: https://www.chromium.org/developers/design-documents/chromium-graphics/mac-delegated-rendering https://www.chromium.org/developers/design-documents/chromiu... Technical details aside, it describes two methods of performing delegated rendering on Mac. One uses public APIs and causes a "reduction in performance and increase in GPU power consumption." The other uses the reverse-engineered CAContext API.
- Andrex 7y ago
  IANAL, so I would need someone to explain to me how this differs from Netscape's claims against Microsoft in the 90s. Because it seems pretty similar. Also, I wonder if this was code inherited from WebKit, possibly even from Apple engineers.
  - scarface74 7y ago
    Netscape’s claims had nothing to do with MS not allowing private APIs. MS forbid OEMs from shipping Netscape of they wanted to license Windows. The definition of anti trust is not “a company does something I don’t like”.
rdevnull 7y ago
I just wonder they bump major releases very quickly --now is 7.0.1 and basically a lot of stuff you find, including courses are obsolete and a lot of deprecation -- and yet they didn't take this seriously enough.
- httpsterio 7y ago
  This is not an Electron issue as Apple has deprecated these APIs and the issues go back for the past few years worth of Electron releases. We just bumped our Electron version from 4.0.5 to 6.0.12 and we just needed to add a single line of code.
Humphrey 7y ago
Mozilla recently published a good write up on why they started using these undocumented CALayer API's in Firefox 69. The TLDR is that that these private API's allowed them to get up to 3x better battery usage in Firefox. The article also mentions that Chrome uses these same Core Animation API's. https://mozillagfx.wordpress.com/2019/10/22/dramatically-reduced-power-usage-in-firefox-70-on-macos-with-core-animation/ https://mozillagfx.wordpress.com/2019/10/22/dramatically-red...

It's possible electron team isn't even aware chromium is doing that.

rvz 7y ago

Its looks as if the Electron team had the assumption that developers would be unlikely to distribute their Electron Mac apps via the App Store, but instead as a DMG or zip which doesn't require Apple reviewing private APIs.

duxup 7y ago
But they had to know it was happening at some point right?
- jbverschoor 7y ago
  Ofcourse. But developers things they’re above anyone else and know better. At least most of them. And now someone says no to them, so they cry and post stuff.
rdevnull 7y ago
true and the Notarization of the DMGs works fine with electron. Perhaps this is also why Atom is not on the apple store.

jrochkind1 7y ago

Another interesting question is how Chrome itself gets approved for the Apple web store then, right? https://apps.apple.com/us/app/google-chrome/id535886823 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/google-chrome/id535886823

ridiculous_fish 7y ago
Presumably the iOS Chrome is not using Apple's private APIs.
- saagarjha 7y ago
  Or it's using other private APIs that have they've managed to got through App Store review…
  - bdcravens 7y ago
    iOS Chrome isn't Chromium. It's wrapped mobile Safari.
    - saagarjha 7y ago
      I am aware.
      - bdcravens 7y ago
        Then it's an off-topic discussion which has nothing to do with Chromium's use of private APIs.
      - orf 7y ago
        Then why suggest that the reason Chrome is approved is because they sneak in private API usage?
        saagarjha 7y ago
        Popular applications often get passes for private API usage.
        orf 7y ago
        Private APIs they don’t need to use because it’s just a wrapper for Safari, as you’re aware?

skymt 7y ago

I started searching for the private identifiers listed in the blog post and ran across this document describing Chromium's Mac compositor: https://www.chromium.org/developers/design-documents/chromium-graphics/mac-delegated-rendering https://www.chromium.org/developers/design-documents/chromiu... Technical details aside, it describes two methods of performing delegated rendering on Mac. One uses public APIs and causes a "reduction in performance and increase in GPU power consumption." The other uses the reverse-engineered CAContext API.

Andrex 7y ago
IANAL, so I would need someone to explain to me how this differs from Netscape's claims against Microsoft in the 90s. Because it seems pretty similar. Also, I wonder if this was code inherited from WebKit, possibly even from Apple engineers.
- scarface74 7y ago
  Netscape’s claims had nothing to do with MS not allowing private APIs. MS forbid OEMs from shipping Netscape of they wanted to license Windows. The definition of anti trust is not “a company does something I don’t like”.

rdevnull 7y ago

I just wonder they bump major releases very quickly --now is 7.0.1 and basically a lot of stuff you find, including courses are obsolete and a lot of deprecation -- and yet they didn't take this seriously enough.

httpsterio 7y ago
This is not an Electron issue as Apple has deprecated these APIs and the issues go back for the past few years worth of Electron releases. We just bumped our Electron version from 4.0.5 to 6.0.12 and we just needed to add a single line of code.

Humphrey 7y ago

Mozilla recently published a good write up on why they started using these undocumented CALayer API's in Firefox 69. The TLDR is that that these private API's allowed them to get up to 3x better battery usage in Firefox. The article also mentions that Chrome uses these same Core Animation API's. https://mozillagfx.wordpress.com/2019/10/22/dramatically-reduced-power-usage-in-firefox-70-on-macos-with-core-animation/ https://mozillagfx.wordpress.com/2019/10/22/dramatically-red...