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Russia Has ‘Oligarchs,’ the US Has ‘Businessmen’
- nation157 7y agoYep, Russians have spies, US have intelligence!
- jevgeni 7y agoThere’s the same distinction in Russian: friendly spies are called “razvedchiki” (reconnaissance agents) whereas adversaries are called “shpiony” (spies).
- ratsmack 7y agoWhen was the last time you heard the US media refer to anyone in the three letter agencies as "spies".
- mc32 7y agoI have heard it and Eugene is just pointing out that in Russia they make the same distinction. So it’s nog a novel thing that the US makes that distinction.
- lonelappde 7y agoToday. https://news.google.com/search?q=Spy https://news.google.com/search?q=Spy
- goatinaboat 7y agoRussian oligarchs tend to be former senior officers in the KGB who obtained state assets at substantial discounts by mysterious means when the USSR broke up. Sure lots of Western billionaires are corrupt but there is nothing directly comparable. There’s no conspiracy of renaming going on.
- NPC32419419 7y agoDo they have those funny shaped noses by the chance?
- vinceguidry 7y agoAnybody actually interested in Russian history, social organization and politics should follow Dima Vorobiev on Quora. He worked for Soviet propaganda under Yeltsin and Gorbachev, I cannot recommend them highly enough. Here is an older answer where he talks about Russian 'tributary taxation': https://www.quora.com/Will-Russia-abandon-the-tributary-taxation-system-in-the-future-or-is-this-clan-like-system-a-permanent-part-of-Russian-society/answer/Dima-Vorobiev https://www.quora.com/Will-Russia-abandon-the-tributary-taxa...
- dpedu 7y agoThe Revolutions Podcast - https://www.revolutionspodcast.com/ https://www.revolutionspodcast.com/ - is in the middle of a Russian history unit currently. I find them pretty well researched.
- ThalesX 7y agoI don't really get what I got out of this article... tl;dr; US news outlets use the term 'oligarch' more when talking about Russia, Ukraine and other Eastern Block countries.
- NPC32419419 7y agoGood they do not use the term 'capitalist'. It has more pejorative meaning in those countries.
- vetinari 7y ago> I don't really get what I got out of this article... How the vocabulary is used to frame the article. Use the 'good' term for our guys, and the 'bad' term for theirs. The Chelsea soccer club quote is a beautiful example.
- GoToRO 7y agoNothing. Sure the rich business people are bad also in some way, yet it doesn't compare to the actual oligarchs. There is no way to start a competing business with an oligarch's among other things.
- bediger4000 7y agoI personally have begun referring to astronomically wealthy US 'Businessmen' as oligarchs, too. It seems more fitting.
- quotz 7y agoRussia's oligarchs got their wealth by taking over previously state-owned companies using very shady tactics like bribes, extortion, violence, while the US businessmen generally created their own wealth by creating something new
- ilrwbwrkhv 7y agolol and what gives you that idea? im sure some american media?
- avmich 7y agoLet's see :) - Bill Gates organized creation of a lot of useful software, benefiting from it. Jeff Bezos made searching for products among many choices easier and delivery of those products faster. Warren Buffet made markets more liquid and supported promising companies with investment. Etc. What's wrong? :)
- cbHXBY1D 7y agoThis entire process of "shock therapy" was orchestrated by American advisors, backed by U.S. capital, and closely presided over by the Clinton administration. No matter your opinion of the USSR, HN readers should be able to see what the US did to the fledgling Russian state in the 90s was an utter tragedy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shock_therapy_(economics) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shock_therapy_(economics) https://www.thenation.com/article/harvard-boys-do-russia/ https://www.thenation.com/article/harvard-boys-do-russia/ Remember this Times cover? http://content.time.com/time/covers/0,16641,19960715,00.html http://content.time.com/time/covers/0,16641,19960715,00.html
- btrask 7y agoI recently learned about the term "Russell cognate", meaning two words that have the same meaning but vastly different connotations, via some podcast with Eric Weinstein. This thread is probably going down in flames, but I appreciate this article because I never realized that "oligarch" was one of those words.
- lidHanteyk 7y agoOn one hand, yes, the USA has oligarchic components to its government, and we must not ignore them. They are mostly the ones guaranteed by the First Amendment to exist, like lobbying and public advertising. We joke that legislators are bought and paid for. Corporations can pay into and steer PACs. And, from a certain point of view, the Electoral College or any other sort of indirect election is oligarchic. In fact, the pattern of having a political council chosen by an oligos of democratically-elected representatives is quite common around the world. On the other hand, "Russian oligarchy" [0] refers specifically to a grand looting of wealth during the collapse of the Soviet Union, and the effects of that transfer of wealth and establishment of corporate power structures are still reverberating throughout Russia. To this day, folks study the unique combination of oligarchy and corporatism in Russia [1]. On the gripping hand, there are functional oligarchies emerging from direct corporate selection of legislators, rather than from indirect effects such as PACs and lobbying, as in the USA. For example, Hong Kong only elects half of its parliament democratically, and half oligarchically [2]. On one hand, three of the latter are labor representatives; however, I count six seats going to the bankers, including the "oligarch"/"businessman" of the article ("insurance", "accounting", "finance", "financial services", and "chamber of commerce" twice, once for HK and once for China!) For another and quite different example, Ireland also only elects one house democratically. The other house consists of the prime minister's hand-picked elders, as well as several oligarchic councils [3]. Unlike any other system I know of, specific universities' graduates are constitutionally appointed to choose several seats. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_oligarch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_oligarch [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatism#Russian_corporatism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatism#Russian_corporatis... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legislative_Council_of_Hong_Kong https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legislative_Council_of_Hong_Ko... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seanad_%C3%89ireann https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seanad_%C3%89ireann
- herenorthere 7y agoBut directly equating Russian oligarchs to American businessmen makes for a better headline, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ But in all seriousness, I'm glad that someone was here in the comments section to break down the nuances of this rather contentious analogy. So TY
- Viliam1234 7y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes The defining trait of an "oligarch" (in the current usage of the word, not the ancient Greek) is someone who got the power and money through a combination of crime and state power, which are usually not even separated. No, it's not just a difference between "a rich guy from Russia" vs "a rich guy from USA". The rich guy in Russia most likely had his competitors killed, literally, and the police turned a blind eye. Denying this is ignoring how the post-communist countries work. And yes, sometimes people get killed in USA, too. But compared with that, in Russia they get killed for trivial stuff. As an example, imagine that Russia would have its equivalents of Bill Gates and Linus Torvalds. What would happen is that the Russian-Gates would bribe the police to put a bullet in Russian-Linus's head, most likely on a busy street in daylight, to send a message to other wannabe troublemakers. This is how business is done in the post-communist countries. You can complain about oligarchy in USA, and you can make a few good points, but there is still the difference that in USA you can get where Bill Gates is without paying to have your competitors killed. So it is not the same. Therefore it makes sense to use different words.
- coldtea 7y ago>The defining trait of an "oligarch" (in the current usage of the word, not the ancient Greek) is someone who got the power and money through a combination of crime and state power, which are usually not even separated. The "current usage" of the word is used politically for against regular businessmen as well if we don't like their country. And similarly, is omitted, when we do like it.
- 9HZZRfNlpR 7y agoWhile you have a point it's unfair to use the word post soviet countries, since the ones who always looked for the west, such as Poland and Estonia, things definetly don't work like that. Plus loads of others that you can't lump in with Russia Ukraine and Central Asia.
- walterstucco 7y ago> and the police turned a blind eye And the difference with the rich US guy is...? How many people have any of the major US oil companies killed? https://ejatlas.org/conflict/multinational-oil-companies-on-the-niger-delta-nigeria https://ejatlas.org/conflict/multinational-oil-companies-on-... Not talking about the support they gave in the past and are still giving to dictators across the globe.
- Sidious 7y agoTruth, i love it. https://www.bitchute.com/video/hoQhXh_Q0AU/ https://www.bitchute.com/video/hoQhXh_Q0AU/
- 8bitsrule 7y agoWe don't have oligarchs here, we have permanently unembarrassed millionaires.
- EETruth 7y agoWow, the russkie trolls at it again.
- jgelsey 7y agoU.S. has rule-of-law. Russia has rule-by-force. Comparing Russian and US elites like this smells like rank Russian propaganda.