5 ms·

Just to be clear - the machines referenced in the article are the larger more precise machines at police stations rather than the field test units. As an aside

by cascom 7y ago

Just to be clear - the machines referenced in the article are the larger more precise machines at police stations rather than the field test units. As an aside - I think geography/access to alternative transport needs to be taken into consideration, if you live in SF or NYC there is no excuse getting behind the wheel after a few drinks - if you live in west Texas or Montana these laws make it almost impossible to drink in a social setting legally

zamadatix 7y ago
What has access to alternative transport got to do with whether you're safely able to operate a vehicle? The law isn't about how much you're inconvenienced it's about how intoxicated you are.
- HarryHirsch 7y ago
  Normalization of deviance. When everyone else drives drunk it's no big deal if you do it, too. It's easy to lose sight of the problem. The goal is not to catch drunk drivers, what we want is safe roads.
  - crankylinuxuser 7y ago
    Well, once we have automatic driving cars, drinking/drunk driving simply won't matter. It's one of those first derivative effects of automatic vehicles. (edit: uh, seriously, -1's? How is this contentious at all? It's a matter of fact that a drunk person has no bearing on safety with a automatic car. Sigh, HN.)
    - nitrogen 7y ago
      My guess is that self-driving cars are basically a meme at this point and that people believed a self-driving thread would detract from the discussion.
    - umanwizard 7y ago
      “once we have automatic driving cars” is overly optimistic. There is no reason to believe self-driving cars will ever exist in most places in the US.
- closeparen 7y ago
  I tend to think that both intoxication and sleep deprivation are bad enough that they always dominate the convenience angle. But it's not an unprecedented consideration. The safest speed is zero. Every mph allowed above that is a tradeoff between convenience and safety.
- Broken_Hippo 7y ago
  We know that not everyone is going to plan properly and in a few cases, even when one tries to properly plan it doesn't work out as planned. THese tend to put folks in a situation where they cannot get home from the bar without driving drunk. Not everywhere has any public transportation to speak of and if you live in a farming community, you might actually be too far to walk and have a dangerous walk on top of it all. When faced with this - and the prospect that they'll have to walk back to the bar tomorrow or get a ride to fetch their car - folks are more likely to drive home, even if they know they really probably shouldn't. But hey, they sobered up a bit and ate a bit, so they really should be OK. With affordable alternative transportation, not driving when you can't safely drive becomes an actual option, no matter how badly you planned.
pcurve 7y ago
"if you live in west Texas or Montana these laws make it almost impossible to drink in a social setting legally" Most states have BAC of .08 to .1. if you are adult male you can comfortably have 3 drinks over the course of couple hours. Do people drink much more than this at typical social settings?
- otterley 7y ago
  If the machines used to test BAC were reliable, I’d agree with you. The issue isn’t the question of whether you’re actually impaired; it’s whether you’re not impaired but the machine falsely claims you are.
- leetcrew 7y ago
  it depends a lot on what you mean by "drink". let's assume I only drink 12oz beers at 5% ABV and 1.5oz shots of 80 proof, and I'm hanging out with friends for three hours before going home. if I, a 140lb male, have three drinks, starting the first one the moment I show up, I will be just under the legal limit when I leave. [0] if I get pulled over and the breathalyzer is off by even 0.01, I may well be spending the night in jail. the bigger problem is that I rarely ever consume a "standard drink". the beers I typically drink are anywhere between 6% and 8% ABV, making my typical beer somewhere between 1.2 and 1.6 standard drinks. if I go to a bar and order my favorite cocktail, the manhattan, that one serving is around two standard drinks. I'm already close to the legal limit by the time I finish my first one! if I have a typical beer and cocktail and don't slam the first one immediately, I need to wait at least four hours before driving home. as an aside: be very careful when you read BAC charts online. several of the top google hits for "BAC chart" take 1.25oz of 80 proof liquor to be a standard drink. I've never seen a shot glass under 1.5oz in my whole life. [0] https://www.alcohol.org/bac-calculator/ https://www.alcohol.org/bac-calculator/

by cascom 7y ago

zamadatix 7y ago

What has access to alternative transport got to do with whether you're safely able to operate a vehicle? The law isn't about how much you're inconvenienced it's about how intoxicated you are.

HarryHirsch 7y ago
Normalization of deviance. When everyone else drives drunk it's no big deal if you do it, too. It's easy to lose sight of the problem. The goal is not to catch drunk drivers, what we want is safe roads.
- crankylinuxuser 7y ago
  Well, once we have automatic driving cars, drinking/drunk driving simply won't matter. It's one of those first derivative effects of automatic vehicles. (edit: uh, seriously, -1's? How is this contentious at all? It's a matter of fact that a drunk person has no bearing on safety with a automatic car. Sigh, HN.)
  - nitrogen 7y ago
    My guess is that self-driving cars are basically a meme at this point and that people believed a self-driving thread would detract from the discussion.
  - umanwizard 7y ago
    “once we have automatic driving cars” is overly optimistic. There is no reason to believe self-driving cars will ever exist in most places in the US.
closeparen 7y ago
I tend to think that both intoxication and sleep deprivation are bad enough that they always dominate the convenience angle. But it's not an unprecedented consideration. The safest speed is zero. Every mph allowed above that is a tradeoff between convenience and safety.
Broken_Hippo 7y ago
We know that not everyone is going to plan properly and in a few cases, even when one tries to properly plan it doesn't work out as planned. THese tend to put folks in a situation where they cannot get home from the bar without driving drunk. Not everywhere has any public transportation to speak of and if you live in a farming community, you might actually be too far to walk and have a dangerous walk on top of it all. When faced with this - and the prospect that they'll have to walk back to the bar tomorrow or get a ride to fetch their car - folks are more likely to drive home, even if they know they really probably shouldn't. But hey, they sobered up a bit and ate a bit, so they really should be OK. With affordable alternative transportation, not driving when you can't safely drive becomes an actual option, no matter how badly you planned.

pcurve 7y ago

"if you live in west Texas or Montana these laws make it almost impossible to drink in a social setting legally" Most states have BAC of .08 to .1. if you are adult male you can comfortably have 3 drinks over the course of couple hours. Do people drink much more than this at typical social settings?

otterley 7y ago
If the machines used to test BAC were reliable, I’d agree with you. The issue isn’t the question of whether you’re actually impaired; it’s whether you’re not impaired but the machine falsely claims you are.
leetcrew 7y ago
it depends a lot on what you mean by "drink". let's assume I only drink 12oz beers at 5% ABV and 1.5oz shots of 80 proof, and I'm hanging out with friends for three hours before going home. if I, a 140lb male, have three drinks, starting the first one the moment I show up, I will be just under the legal limit when I leave. [0] if I get pulled over and the breathalyzer is off by even 0.01, I may well be spending the night in jail. the bigger problem is that I rarely ever consume a "standard drink". the beers I typically drink are anywhere between 6% and 8% ABV, making my typical beer somewhere between 1.2 and 1.6 standard drinks. if I go to a bar and order my favorite cocktail, the manhattan, that one serving is around two standard drinks. I'm already close to the legal limit by the time I finish my first one! if I have a typical beer and cocktail and don't slam the first one immediately, I need to wait at least four hours before driving home. as an aside: be very careful when you read BAC charts online. several of the top google hits for "BAC chart" take 1.25oz of 80 proof liquor to be a standard drink. I've never seen a shot glass under 1.5oz in my whole life. [0] https://www.alcohol.org/bac-calculator/ https://www.alcohol.org/bac-calculator/