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Drowsy driving causes more deaths than drunk driving plus drugged driving combined. Ever driven on less than a solid 8 hours? See _Why we Sleep_ by Matthew Wal

Drowsy driving causes more deaths than drunk driving plus drugged driving combined. Ever driven on less than a solid 8 hours? See _Why we Sleep_ by Matthew Walker.

EvanAnderson 7y ago
Drowsy driving should be as much of a crime as drunk driving-- absolutely. There is no excuse for getting behind the wheel impaired and exposing innocent people to unnecessary risk.
- hanniabu 7y ago
  This basically means that no night shift worker is allowed to drive home from work.
  - goodcanadian 7y ago
    I never found that driving after a night shift was much different to driving after a day shift. Of course, when working nights, I slept during the day. YMMV.
  - gowld 7y ago
    Night-shift workers should sleep during the day.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - hanniabu 7y ago
      My guess is you've never worked night shift. It's not as easy to sleep during the day as it is at night, even with black out curtain, unless you wanted to get drugged up every day.
      - astura 7y ago
        YMMV, I guess, I slept perfectly fine when I worked the night shift. (Went to bed around 5-6am)
        hanniabu 7y ago
        That may have been the difference. We didn't get out until 9am (12hr shift) and by then the sun is high and bright so by the time you've driven home you've spent enough time outside where your body has switched from "I'm tired lets go to bed" to "the day is just getting started".
- cortesoft 7y ago
  The problem is that it isn't binary... you aren't either drowsy or not drowsy, it is a spectrum... and you can't always tell exactly where you are on the spectrum.
  - gowld 7y ago
    So, exactly the same as drunkenness.
- closeparen 7y ago
  I agree, but the consequences of this policy would be really dramatic. For example, new parents are effectively on house arrest until their kids start sleeping through the night.
  - MereInterest 7y ago
    I would take this to its logical conclusion. New parents are chronically sleep-deprived, and therefore should not drive. On a social level, we should not place new parents under house arrest. Therefore, we should invest in public transportation so that driving is not necessary to function in society.
    - closeparen 7y ago
      Young couples are well served by transportation just before they become parents. Then as the baby is arriving they explicitly and intentionally seek car-oriented housing, as this is considered the correct place to raise a family. So we have to look at why cities are considered unsuitable for children. This quickly gets into uncomfortable territory about respecting the rights of the other demographics (for example homeless people and less affluent children with lower academic performance) that middle-class families are fleeing when they move to the suburbs.
      - cesarb 7y ago
        > Then as the baby is arriving they explicitly and intentionally seek car-oriented housing, as this is considered the correct place to raise a family. As someone who lives in a major metropolitan area, I have read this argument a few times in the Internet, but this doesn't match my experience; of all young couples who became parents that I know, none did "seek car-oriented housing", at most they moved to a bigger apartment (with more rooms).
      - learc83 7y ago
        In most cities in the US, decent housing near public transpiration that is big enough for a family is expensive enough that it's not really a viable option for most people. Beyond that most cities in the US only have a few areas that are high enough density where not owning a car is convenient. And those high density areas generally aren't geared towards families on a budget.
- tim58 7y ago
  What is the drowsiness test? The convenient thing about breathalyzers is it provides a quantitative number we can use in judgement. I can't think of a similar test for drowsiness. Maybe there is a blood test? Maybe someone could create a similar device that looks for special metabolites in the breath to provide a measurement for drowsy people?
emmp 7y ago
I don't doubt this statistic, but this is only an argument that we should find a way to better disincentivize drowsy driving rather than to soften the drunk driving laws. A few states have passed laws to penalize drowsy driving already.
- jeffdavis 7y ago
  What it does is make people realize that nearly everyone who drives, drives a little impaired sometimes. That stops us from thinking this is about "other" people who can be punished to an arbitrarily high degree. Instead, now we have to acknowledge that it will be our sons, daughters, spouses, uncles, and cousins. It's just a matter of whether they got pulled over after a restless night or trying to finish a school assignment or working too late thr night before. So, go ahead and punish people for impaired driving. But punish them like you'd want your daughter, cousin, or yourself punished. Not like a criminal who has crossed a major moral line.
  - johnisgood 7y ago
    Exactly. Prohibitionists think that these laws will never affect them or their beloved ones. Why are we so keen on ruining other people's lives based on arbitrary crap that is meaningless without all the other variables that we do not take into account?
bdcravens 7y ago
Similarly, texting while driving has been found to be more dangerous than drunk driving.

Drowsy driving causes more deaths than drunk driving plus drugged driving combined. Ever driven on less than a solid 8 hours? See _Why we Sleep_ by Matthew Walker.

EvanAnderson 7y ago

Drowsy driving should be as much of a crime as drunk driving-- absolutely. There is no excuse for getting behind the wheel impaired and exposing innocent people to unnecessary risk.

hanniabu 7y ago
This basically means that no night shift worker is allowed to drive home from work.
- goodcanadian 7y ago
  I never found that driving after a night shift was much different to driving after a day shift. Of course, when working nights, I slept during the day. YMMV.
- gowld 7y ago
  Night-shift workers should sleep during the day.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - hanniabu 7y ago
    My guess is you've never worked night shift. It's not as easy to sleep during the day as it is at night, even with black out curtain, unless you wanted to get drugged up every day.
    - astura 7y ago
      YMMV, I guess, I slept perfectly fine when I worked the night shift. (Went to bed around 5-6am)
      - hanniabu 7y ago
        That may have been the difference. We didn't get out until 9am (12hr shift) and by then the sun is high and bright so by the time you've driven home you've spent enough time outside where your body has switched from "I'm tired lets go to bed" to "the day is just getting started".
cortesoft 7y ago
The problem is that it isn't binary... you aren't either drowsy or not drowsy, it is a spectrum... and you can't always tell exactly where you are on the spectrum.
- gowld 7y ago
  So, exactly the same as drunkenness.
closeparen 7y ago
I agree, but the consequences of this policy would be really dramatic. For example, new parents are effectively on house arrest until their kids start sleeping through the night.
- MereInterest 7y ago
  I would take this to its logical conclusion. New parents are chronically sleep-deprived, and therefore should not drive. On a social level, we should not place new parents under house arrest. Therefore, we should invest in public transportation so that driving is not necessary to function in society.
  - closeparen 7y ago
    Young couples are well served by transportation just before they become parents. Then as the baby is arriving they explicitly and intentionally seek car-oriented housing, as this is considered the correct place to raise a family. So we have to look at why cities are considered unsuitable for children. This quickly gets into uncomfortable territory about respecting the rights of the other demographics (for example homeless people and less affluent children with lower academic performance) that middle-class families are fleeing when they move to the suburbs.
    - cesarb 7y ago
      > Then as the baby is arriving they explicitly and intentionally seek car-oriented housing, as this is considered the correct place to raise a family. As someone who lives in a major metropolitan area, I have read this argument a few times in the Internet, but this doesn't match my experience; of all young couples who became parents that I know, none did "seek car-oriented housing", at most they moved to a bigger apartment (with more rooms).
    - learc83 7y ago
      In most cities in the US, decent housing near public transpiration that is big enough for a family is expensive enough that it's not really a viable option for most people. Beyond that most cities in the US only have a few areas that are high enough density where not owning a car is convenient. And those high density areas generally aren't geared towards families on a budget.
tim58 7y ago
What is the drowsiness test? The convenient thing about breathalyzers is it provides a quantitative number we can use in judgement. I can't think of a similar test for drowsiness. Maybe there is a blood test? Maybe someone could create a similar device that looks for special metabolites in the breath to provide a measurement for drowsy people?

emmp 7y ago

I don't doubt this statistic, but this is only an argument that we should find a way to better disincentivize drowsy driving rather than to soften the drunk driving laws. A few states have passed laws to penalize drowsy driving already.

jeffdavis 7y ago
What it does is make people realize that nearly everyone who drives, drives a little impaired sometimes. That stops us from thinking this is about "other" people who can be punished to an arbitrarily high degree. Instead, now we have to acknowledge that it will be our sons, daughters, spouses, uncles, and cousins. It's just a matter of whether they got pulled over after a restless night or trying to finish a school assignment or working too late thr night before. So, go ahead and punish people for impaired driving. But punish them like you'd want your daughter, cousin, or yourself punished. Not like a criminal who has crossed a major moral line.
- johnisgood 7y ago
  Exactly. Prohibitionists think that these laws will never affect them or their beloved ones. Why are we so keen on ruining other people's lives based on arbitrary crap that is meaningless without all the other variables that we do not take into account?

bdcravens 7y ago

Similarly, texting while driving has been found to be more dangerous than drunk driving.