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> The whole arrangement is about control, preventing workers from having the time or energy to build competing enterprises, develop skills beyond a certain leve

> The whole arrangement is about control, preventing workers from having the time or energy to build competing enterprises, develop skills beyond a certain level, or organize against their employers [Citation needed]

claudeganon 7y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_history_of_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_history_of_the_United_St...
- quotemstr 7y ago
  Quote the relevant passage instead of gesturing vaguely at all of labor history. The idea that working hours are set to sap workers of competitive energy is just a weird conspiracy theory. But I guess HN will believe what it wants to believe.
  - lm28469 7y ago
    Do you really believe you can summarize 100 years of labor law in a single quote that somehow will convince you... Read any European socialist work from the 30s to the 70s and you'll have plenty of quotes to work with. Raoul Vaneigem, Guy Debord, &c.
lm28469 7y ago
https://thecharnelhouse.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Raoul-Vaneigem-The-Revolution-of-Everyday-Life.pdf https://thecharnelhouse.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Raoul...
- quotemstr 7y ago
  So somewhere in 280 pages is something that might support the OP's claim? Give me a break. Cite specifics or stop pushing nonsense. I wish there were a site like HN focused on technology and tech industry developments but without the Bay Area intellectual blind spots and biases.
  - lm28469 7y ago
    I wish there were still people interested in learning instead of waiting to be fed one liners. Anyway, I'm the first to criticize SV so I'm not even sure what you're talking about. That book is quite short by the way, you can finish it in an evening, I don't think you can make it shorter without losing a lot of meaningful info. Seeing your other comment you seem to be stuck in a "HN vs me" kind of logic, knowing that I don't see how a single quote could change your mind.
    - brokencode 7y ago
      I don’t think anybody is going to read a book just because you threw out a link. If you want to get your point across, you should condense what you thought was interesting about the book and make a case for why somebody would read it.
      - lm28469 7y ago
        It's a societal critic, you can't condensate that, it's already as short as you can make it and the summary is a rebuttal to op's point... HN truly is becoming reddit by the day. Should I post memes explaining the last 200 years of labor history ? No wonder the world is going down the drain and people like Trump and Bolsonaro get elected if smart people don't even bother reading a 300 pages book about on one of the biggest issues of the last century.
  - learnstats2 7y ago
    Since you haven't disagreed with anything that's been said, but only criticised how they were presented (in multiple ways)... couldn't you just do the work yourself to frame this argument in a way that satisfies you?
WilliamEdward 7y ago
Instead of giving you a citation, how about some logic - when your competitors keep pushing you out of the market, what is the natural course of business? Would it be to: A) decrease work hours for employees or B) make them work more for less, effectively preventing them from doing what OP said It's not always that there is intention to suppress workers, it's just a natural consequence of traditional business.
osipov 7y ago
You comment getting downvoted is all the evidence I need that HN went down the tubes over the past couples of years. Do you know of any good alternatives? Apparently dev.to is pretty good...
pastage 7y ago
The statement in itself is of course overly broad, but I think you can do better, what part of the argument do you want a citation on? EDIT: I just interpret it as a way to express the opinion that employers usually care about their buisness more than their workers.

claudeganon 7y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_history_of_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_history_of_the_United_St...

quotemstr 7y ago
Quote the relevant passage instead of gesturing vaguely at all of labor history. The idea that working hours are set to sap workers of competitive energy is just a weird conspiracy theory. But I guess HN will believe what it wants to believe.
- lm28469 7y ago
  Do you really believe you can summarize 100 years of labor law in a single quote that somehow will convince you... Read any European socialist work from the 30s to the 70s and you'll have plenty of quotes to work with. Raoul Vaneigem, Guy Debord, &c.

lm28469 7y ago

https://thecharnelhouse.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Raoul-Vaneigem-The-Revolution-of-Everyday-Life.pdf https://thecharnelhouse.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Raoul...

quotemstr 7y ago
So somewhere in 280 pages is something that might support the OP's claim? Give me a break. Cite specifics or stop pushing nonsense. I wish there were a site like HN focused on technology and tech industry developments but without the Bay Area intellectual blind spots and biases.
- lm28469 7y ago
  I wish there were still people interested in learning instead of waiting to be fed one liners. Anyway, I'm the first to criticize SV so I'm not even sure what you're talking about. That book is quite short by the way, you can finish it in an evening, I don't think you can make it shorter without losing a lot of meaningful info. Seeing your other comment you seem to be stuck in a "HN vs me" kind of logic, knowing that I don't see how a single quote could change your mind.
  - brokencode 7y ago
    I don’t think anybody is going to read a book just because you threw out a link. If you want to get your point across, you should condense what you thought was interesting about the book and make a case for why somebody would read it.
    - lm28469 7y ago
      It's a societal critic, you can't condensate that, it's already as short as you can make it and the summary is a rebuttal to op's point... HN truly is becoming reddit by the day. Should I post memes explaining the last 200 years of labor history ? No wonder the world is going down the drain and people like Trump and Bolsonaro get elected if smart people don't even bother reading a 300 pages book about on one of the biggest issues of the last century.
- learnstats2 7y ago
  Since you haven't disagreed with anything that's been said, but only criticised how they were presented (in multiple ways)... couldn't you just do the work yourself to frame this argument in a way that satisfies you?

WilliamEdward 7y ago

Instead of giving you a citation, how about some logic - when your competitors keep pushing you out of the market, what is the natural course of business? Would it be to: A) decrease work hours for employees or B) make them work more for less, effectively preventing them from doing what OP said It's not always that there is intention to suppress workers, it's just a natural consequence of traditional business.

osipov 7y ago

You comment getting downvoted is all the evidence I need that HN went down the tubes over the past couples of years. Do you know of any good alternatives? Apparently dev.to is pretty good...

pastage 7y ago

The statement in itself is of course overly broad, but I think you can do better, what part of the argument do you want a citation on? EDIT: I just interpret it as a way to express the opinion that employers usually care about their buisness more than their workers.