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Upvoted, I think people don't really understand how little time is spent on actually learning to program in an average computer science degree. If you don't stu

Upvoted, I think people don't really understand how little time is spent on actually learning to program in an average computer science degree. If you don't study programming yourself and have intrinsic motivation to do so, you really can't program all that well despite having a CS degree.

EliRivers 7y ago
While I didn't do a CS degree, from what I could tell of friends who were doing that, it was a course in mathematical logic and algorithms built with that logic, and analysis of problems in such a way that they could be explored and solved using the logic, with some modules demonstrating applications of that mathematical logic such as operating systems and compilers, which were helpful tools created out of the logic in order to facilitate further exploration of the same. A big clue going in, I suppose, was that the CS degree entry requirements demanded applicants to have mathematics A-Level (i.e. spent, under the typical UK system, about a third of their age 16-17 full-time education exclusively on mathematics). It was in no way intended to be, and clearly was not, a degree teaching people how to be software engineers or how to program beyond being able to put the logic, in the chosen notation, on the screen. This was back at around the turn of the millennium.
- monk_e_boy 7y ago
  The degree covers a lot of ground. Different languages, AI, robotics, people management, teams, etc etc Mostly it informs the student of their current level of understanding. 70% of lecturing is marking assignments. That’s what you don’t get when you teach yourself.
  - EliRivers 7y ago
    What can I say. My fellows did not cover AI, robotics or people management. Sounds like it's become a lot more of a practical degree in the last twenty years. Much more vocational, perhaps. There was a time when CS graduates would be hired and big companies would immediately start training them in how to engineer software, but now people expect to finish a CS degree and be capable of a related but different discipline; software engineering. I can only assume that CS degrees have changed to meet the demand.
    - lol768 7y ago
      > What can I say. My fellows did not cover AI, robotics or people management. Sounds like it's become a lot more of a practical degree in the last twenty years. Honestly, it needs to be. Employers are not going to be impressed with grads who've not encountered basic things like version control by the time they've graduated - and it's irresponsible to market a degree as a stepping stone to a e.g. software engineering job without covering these basics properly. The theory is still incredibly important - mathematics, algorithms, performance & time complexity, data structures etc. It underpins everything we do in industry. But there really needs to be some element of practical software engineering too because the vast majority of the UG cohort are there to get a job.
      - EliRivers 7y ago
        Employers are not going to be impressed with grads who've not encountered basic things like version control by the time they've graduate That's true now. It certainly wasn't true in the past; especially with larger companies who would hire people with the intention of training them. I wonder if there will be a bifurcation in education. To some degree (excuse the pun), there already is; software engineering "boot camps" and the like that teach software engineering rather than CS. Maybe we'll see that split reach upwards to the formal education level; a more vocational college for the software engineers, a more mathematical alternative for the informatics enthusiasts.
  - buckminster 7y ago
    Which CS degree? They vary enormously.

EliRivers 7y ago

While I didn't do a CS degree, from what I could tell of friends who were doing that, it was a course in mathematical logic and algorithms built with that logic, and analysis of problems in such a way that they could be explored and solved using the logic, with some modules demonstrating applications of that mathematical logic such as operating systems and compilers, which were helpful tools created out of the logic in order to facilitate further exploration of the same. A big clue going in, I suppose, was that the CS degree entry requirements demanded applicants to have mathematics A-Level (i.e. spent, under the typical UK system, about a third of their age 16-17 full-time education exclusively on mathematics). It was in no way intended to be, and clearly was not, a degree teaching people how to be software engineers or how to program beyond being able to put the logic, in the chosen notation, on the screen. This was back at around the turn of the millennium.

monk_e_boy 7y ago
The degree covers a lot of ground. Different languages, AI, robotics, people management, teams, etc etc Mostly it informs the student of their current level of understanding. 70% of lecturing is marking assignments. That’s what you don’t get when you teach yourself.
- EliRivers 7y ago
  What can I say. My fellows did not cover AI, robotics or people management. Sounds like it's become a lot more of a practical degree in the last twenty years. Much more vocational, perhaps. There was a time when CS graduates would be hired and big companies would immediately start training them in how to engineer software, but now people expect to finish a CS degree and be capable of a related but different discipline; software engineering. I can only assume that CS degrees have changed to meet the demand.
  - lol768 7y ago
    > What can I say. My fellows did not cover AI, robotics or people management. Sounds like it's become a lot more of a practical degree in the last twenty years. Honestly, it needs to be. Employers are not going to be impressed with grads who've not encountered basic things like version control by the time they've graduated - and it's irresponsible to market a degree as a stepping stone to a e.g. software engineering job without covering these basics properly. The theory is still incredibly important - mathematics, algorithms, performance & time complexity, data structures etc. It underpins everything we do in industry. But there really needs to be some element of practical software engineering too because the vast majority of the UG cohort are there to get a job.
    - EliRivers 7y ago
      Employers are not going to be impressed with grads who've not encountered basic things like version control by the time they've graduate That's true now. It certainly wasn't true in the past; especially with larger companies who would hire people with the intention of training them. I wonder if there will be a bifurcation in education. To some degree (excuse the pun), there already is; software engineering "boot camps" and the like that teach software engineering rather than CS. Maybe we'll see that split reach upwards to the formal education level; a more vocational college for the software engineers, a more mathematical alternative for the informatics enthusiasts.
- buckminster 7y ago
  Which CS degree? They vary enormously.