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I am sorry but no. All of that can be learned during your first internship where you get paid instead of paying. I would argue college delays maturity and doe

I am sorry but no. All of that can be learned during your first internship where you get paid instead of paying. I would argue college delays maturity and does not foster it. Hanging out with a bunch of people that are the same age, same life stage, etc. doesn't exactly add life experience. Continuing to do "hoop-jumping" work just like we all did in high school also doesn't seem to be novel. Perhaps its the keggers and binge drinking that bring the maturity the author references? As for prestige, if its a top 10 program sure, otherwise (and often even then) don't waste your money. Disclosure: Current engineering lead with multiple Degrees (1 Summa Cum Laude) and a bootcamp CS education at one point (which wasn't all that valuable).

chrisco255 7y ago
I don't think the article made the best points in favor of a CS degree. I went to a top 40 program and I took a lot of CS and hardware classes and what I did learn, crucially, that is more difficult in the workplace, is how complex systems work and how to approach complex systems. Now, you could accidentally learn that on the job, or intentionally if you choose to, but you can also sort of skate by in a fog of ignorance for many years without ever learning the fundamentals. But look, we learned how RAM works, how networking and IP works, how to build a peer to peer file sharing network, how to design a simple microprocessor, how operating systems and threads and processes work, many of the fundamental data structures and algorithms that software is built on, etc. Learning all that provides a very strong foundation for learning any other software system. That's very hard to do without a program like a good CS curriculum.
- pcmoney 7y ago
  I think that is fair but remember over half of the classes you took in the pursuit of a CS undergrad were not CS classes. Of the half remaining maybe half of them were truly vital? Even the example of building a microprocessor (or your own compiler as a right of passage) totally useless to 99.5% of practitioners in industry. That is a quintessential "hoop-jumping" class. Did you also learn the proper way to heat sand to extract silicon to make your own transistors? At some point we have to climb up the abstraction ladder and academia is always a rung or two behind and moves too slowly. I would contend there are 6 classes worth of truly important information for practitioners to be equivalently informed as your top 20% CS undergrad.
  - innocentoldguy 7y ago
    That was my experience in college. Most of my classes were fluff and filler. Of course, I finished college in my 40s after taking a 20-year break to raise my kids, so my perspective is probably a little different than most.
  - chrisco255 7y ago
    It's not a hoop jumping class. You are learning how the machine actually works. And I've used those hardware skills to design my own circuits, so I don't find it useless at all. It's very empowering and it opens up possibilities for my career that I wouldn't otherwise have. If I want to go into robotics or some more hardware intensive discipline, I've got a good foundation for that. I wouldn't be starting from zero.
  - anongraddebt 7y ago
    Which six classes?
    - pcmoney 7y ago
      Thats the trick right I would say: 1. The standard Data Structures and Algs class. 2. Discrete Math (if needed) 3. Systems design 4. A Nand To Tetris type survey class 5. Databases 6. Networking Bonus: An ethics class. Because the tech world needs more people with functioning moral compasses.

chrisco255 7y ago

I don't think the article made the best points in favor of a CS degree. I went to a top 40 program and I took a lot of CS and hardware classes and what I did learn, crucially, that is more difficult in the workplace, is how complex systems work and how to approach complex systems. Now, you could accidentally learn that on the job, or intentionally if you choose to, but you can also sort of skate by in a fog of ignorance for many years without ever learning the fundamentals. But look, we learned how RAM works, how networking and IP works, how to build a peer to peer file sharing network, how to design a simple microprocessor, how operating systems and threads and processes work, many of the fundamental data structures and algorithms that software is built on, etc. Learning all that provides a very strong foundation for learning any other software system. That's very hard to do without a program like a good CS curriculum.

pcmoney 7y ago
I think that is fair but remember over half of the classes you took in the pursuit of a CS undergrad were not CS classes. Of the half remaining maybe half of them were truly vital? Even the example of building a microprocessor (or your own compiler as a right of passage) totally useless to 99.5% of practitioners in industry. That is a quintessential "hoop-jumping" class. Did you also learn the proper way to heat sand to extract silicon to make your own transistors? At some point we have to climb up the abstraction ladder and academia is always a rung or two behind and moves too slowly. I would contend there are 6 classes worth of truly important information for practitioners to be equivalently informed as your top 20% CS undergrad.
- innocentoldguy 7y ago
  That was my experience in college. Most of my classes were fluff and filler. Of course, I finished college in my 40s after taking a 20-year break to raise my kids, so my perspective is probably a little different than most.
- chrisco255 7y ago
  It's not a hoop jumping class. You are learning how the machine actually works. And I've used those hardware skills to design my own circuits, so I don't find it useless at all. It's very empowering and it opens up possibilities for my career that I wouldn't otherwise have. If I want to go into robotics or some more hardware intensive discipline, I've got a good foundation for that. I wouldn't be starting from zero.
- anongraddebt 7y ago
  Which six classes?
  - pcmoney 7y ago
    Thats the trick right I would say: 1. The standard Data Structures and Algs class. 2. Discrete Math (if needed) 3. Systems design 4. A Nand To Tetris type survey class 5. Databases 6. Networking Bonus: An ethics class. Because the tech world needs more people with functioning moral compasses.