4 ms·

Speaking as an employee at Google (but not for Google; opinions are all my own), I will offer you this anecdote: I have met a lot of people in my career who ar

by cdata 7y ago

Speaking as an employee at Google (but not for Google; opinions are all my own), I will offer you this anecdote: I have met a lot of people in my career who are motivated to do work for the public good in order for the whole world to benefit (e.g., standards, open source, public speaking/education etc.) and not just one company. I met the vast majority of those people after I joined Google, and many of the others had previously worked at Google. As a lowly engineer, it is difficult for me to speculate about the true motivations of upper management. But, I do feel confident saying that I work alongside a lot of people who are not motivated by evil or "embrace, extend, extinguish" mentality. My colleagues have good intentions, and they act on them. That said, Google is a big place. It's so big that usually I only hear about user-hostile things like this from the news. I personally find it demotivating and sad, because it undermines the good work that I know is being done elsewhere in the company. It seems like the latest in a long string of incidents, and it probably won't be the last. So, take that for what you will. But, please also consider that it may not be as binary good/evil as you make it sound.

malvosenior 7y ago
As and employee? Sure. As a user and internet person, Google is a huge net negative and needs to go away. AMP, Chrome, Gmail, Search, Android, Google Home, Google News... all of these products have massive, toxic reach and they're damaging the technology landscape.
zrobotics 7y ago
As a counterpoint, consider that just because good people work there does not mean that the company isn't evil. I'm sure there are NSA employees who are nice folks, but that doesn't mean that the organization is good. Even the originator of 'embrace, extend, extinguish' had good people working for them. That doesn't mean that early 2000s Microsoft wasn't a fairly evil organization. To Natella's credit, they have radically changed, but please re-read your comment and consider that it doesn't actually prove anything about Google as an organization.
- izacus 7y ago
  > As a counterpoint, consider that just because good people work there does not mean that the company isn't evil. This isn't a comic book or a Marvel movie. Companies are just that, companies. They're incentivized to make money. Google is as evil as BP, Oracle, Microsoft, Apple, Ford or Tesla. Instead of doing comic book analogies which don't apply to real world, perhaps start thinking in terms of incentives that drive these companies and how you can fix your government regulation to push them to improving your own life.
  - skinnymuch 7y ago
    It’s not as black and white as you make it seem either. Oracle is not the same as other big tech companies. Is WeWork the same as other companies too?
  - zrobotics 7y ago
    I realize that perhaps calling a multinational corp 'evil' isn't the most nuanced. However, there is a sliding scale. I don't think it's unfair to say that BP and Oracle are more evil, in general, than Apple and Ford. Apple does some stuff I hate, and Ford really likes selling gas-guzzling F150s, but neither company tends to be overtly malicious in their decisions. Whereas Oracle actively chooses to continue with their hostile sales model; most of their users hate having to deal with the company (the customers are normally upper management that doesn't have to use the software). I chose to use the word 'evil' mainly due to Google's former slogan. I really think that despite the best intentions of many of the employees Google is starting to slide towards the evil end of the scale.
    - viridian 7y ago
      I wouldn't call the F-150 a gas guzzler, in fact it has sort of the opposite reputation. It's a truck that's too small to be a proper work truck, and is a lifestyle vehicle. As someone from rural America, who did assistant carpentry for a few years as a teen, it's hard to see a quiet little f-150 as anything but a suburbanite larpmobile. If you want to talk about a Tundra or a Ram, those are different stories.
skinnymuch 7y ago
Think of all the “evil” or awfully run companies people will refer to. AT&T, Comcast, Facebook, Oracle, Uber, WeWork, Amazon, Walmart, Monsanto, Phillip Morris, Halliburton, Goldman Sachs, 3 letter government agencies, or in general, major private equity firms. Obviously good people work at all those companies too. Doesn’t mean the company as a whole isn’t a good force. Funnily enough I was talking to a friend of a friend who works for LinkedIn. He essentially said the same thing you said wrt not hearing about the negative things about LinkedIn in his every day life. He had no idea that there’s a big tech literate and otherwise chunk of people who find LinkedIn’s dark patterns awful. He didn’t even think LI had any because in his daily life at the company, that sort of stuff didn’t come up. Another anecdote is my uncle works for Comcast. Same with him, he doesn’t hear about the negatives of the company in his every day life. Your situation seems like this friend if friends. It makes sense. What company wants to be seen as evil? What sort of normal employee wants to think of the company they work for as a bad company? Nonetheless, there’s good reason people have issues with Google, LinkedIn, and Comcast.
hcarvalhoalves 7y ago
It’s a huge corporation, and huge corporations are morally challenged.
jacquesm 7y ago
At least you're willing to declare where you stand on this. Thank you for that.

by cdata 7y ago

malvosenior 7y ago

As and employee? Sure. As a user and internet person, Google is a huge net negative and needs to go away. AMP, Chrome, Gmail, Search, Android, Google Home, Google News... all of these products have massive, toxic reach and they're damaging the technology landscape.

zrobotics 7y ago

As a counterpoint, consider that just because good people work there does not mean that the company isn't evil. I'm sure there are NSA employees who are nice folks, but that doesn't mean that the organization is good. Even the originator of 'embrace, extend, extinguish' had good people working for them. That doesn't mean that early 2000s Microsoft wasn't a fairly evil organization. To Natella's credit, they have radically changed, but please re-read your comment and consider that it doesn't actually prove anything about Google as an organization.

izacus 7y ago
> As a counterpoint, consider that just because good people work there does not mean that the company isn't evil. This isn't a comic book or a Marvel movie. Companies are just that, companies. They're incentivized to make money. Google is as evil as BP, Oracle, Microsoft, Apple, Ford or Tesla. Instead of doing comic book analogies which don't apply to real world, perhaps start thinking in terms of incentives that drive these companies and how you can fix your government regulation to push them to improving your own life.
- skinnymuch 7y ago
  It’s not as black and white as you make it seem either. Oracle is not the same as other big tech companies. Is WeWork the same as other companies too?
- zrobotics 7y ago
  I realize that perhaps calling a multinational corp 'evil' isn't the most nuanced. However, there is a sliding scale. I don't think it's unfair to say that BP and Oracle are more evil, in general, than Apple and Ford. Apple does some stuff I hate, and Ford really likes selling gas-guzzling F150s, but neither company tends to be overtly malicious in their decisions. Whereas Oracle actively chooses to continue with their hostile sales model; most of their users hate having to deal with the company (the customers are normally upper management that doesn't have to use the software). I chose to use the word 'evil' mainly due to Google's former slogan. I really think that despite the best intentions of many of the employees Google is starting to slide towards the evil end of the scale.
  - viridian 7y ago
    I wouldn't call the F-150 a gas guzzler, in fact it has sort of the opposite reputation. It's a truck that's too small to be a proper work truck, and is a lifestyle vehicle. As someone from rural America, who did assistant carpentry for a few years as a teen, it's hard to see a quiet little f-150 as anything but a suburbanite larpmobile. If you want to talk about a Tundra or a Ram, those are different stories.

skinnymuch 7y ago

Think of all the “evil” or awfully run companies people will refer to. AT&T, Comcast, Facebook, Oracle, Uber, WeWork, Amazon, Walmart, Monsanto, Phillip Morris, Halliburton, Goldman Sachs, 3 letter government agencies, or in general, major private equity firms. Obviously good people work at all those companies too. Doesn’t mean the company as a whole isn’t a good force. Funnily enough I was talking to a friend of a friend who works for LinkedIn. He essentially said the same thing you said wrt not hearing about the negative things about LinkedIn in his every day life. He had no idea that there’s a big tech literate and otherwise chunk of people who find LinkedIn’s dark patterns awful. He didn’t even think LI had any because in his daily life at the company, that sort of stuff didn’t come up. Another anecdote is my uncle works for Comcast. Same with him, he doesn’t hear about the negatives of the company in his every day life. Your situation seems like this friend if friends. It makes sense. What company wants to be seen as evil? What sort of normal employee wants to think of the company they work for as a bad company? Nonetheless, there’s good reason people have issues with Google, LinkedIn, and Comcast.

hcarvalhoalves 7y ago

It’s a huge corporation, and huge corporations are morally challenged.

jacquesm 7y ago

At least you're willing to declare where you stand on this. Thank you for that.