9 ms·

I wonder why we as a society valorize advancement at any cost. Surely it’s much more respectable to reach a level that fits your personal abilities, needs, and

I wonder why we as a society valorize advancement at any cost. Surely it’s much more respectable to reach a level that fits your personal abilities, needs, and aptitudes, and then be a generally sane, trustworthy, competent person.

choppaface 7y ago
How damaging is Neumann’s excess, actually? The evidence and vibes in the article demonstrate a lot of greed, but not a ton of dominance. In comparison, Travis Kalanick greyballed the government, vilified competitors, and literally brewed a culture of stepping on toes. It seems Neumann wanted to start a religion, but not necessarily one centered on dominance. Neumann was evidently pretty mean to his chief of staff, but this article makes him look like an delusional angel (in many metrics) compared to TK. I personally find Neumann’s excess revolting, but it appears that the collapse of WeWork will mainly impact investor capital (primarily Softbank) versus the livelihoods and civil rights of tens of thousands of people. Or perhaps there’s more to the story?
- vsareto 7y ago
  Just about the only real thing is hotboxing a company jet, which I'm sure the FAA would be pleased to hear about.
  - luma 7y ago
    FAA smoking regulations only cover commercial passenger airlines. Private aircraft are much less regulated. edit: pertinent regulation: https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?c=ecfr&SID=03efb7c1b34301bf39ff6d98084cdd45&rgn=div8&view=text&node=14:2.0.1.3.10.1.4.10&idno=14 https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?c=ecfr&SID=03efb7c1b34... It turns out there is a case where a private pilot has had his license suspended after his wife carried edibles purchased legally in CO onto their aircraft without his knowledge. While article (b) in the link above seems to suggest this should have been legal, it may have been a result of them having carried the marijuana over state lines into Kansas, where marijuana use remains illegal.
    - ISL 7y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_smoking#Hotboxing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_smoking#Hotboxing
    - vsareto 7y ago
      Pilots could get high by the smoke if they didn't close the cabin. Unless you can just fly under the influence with a private aircraft which would be news to me.
      - kitteh 7y ago
        There was a thread on one of the pilot forums years ago where folks who flew private jets for celebrities and musicians asked about the legalities when folks start getting high in the back. There is pressure from their companies to not get involved but if you are knowingly operating as pilot in command and transporting individuals impaired not for medical reasons it could potentially put their certificates at risk. For example if anyone filmed it and showed the crew aware of what was going on, etc. Lots of "I didn't see anything" up there.
- wayoutthere 7y ago
  I mean, Kalanick is up there with Zuckerberg as far as being a self-aware sociopath who doesn't care. Just because Neumann isn't as bad as Kalanick doesn't really say much.
- travisoneill1 7y ago
  > Travis Kalanick greyballed the government, vilified competitors, and literally brewed a culture of stepping on toes And I'm glad he did. Do you want to go back to the misery of taxis?
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - joyeuse6701 7y ago
    False dichotomy? Could we not have had some of that but not all of it?
  - choppaface 7y ago
    Personally, almost half of the Uber rides I've had (more than 30) were unsafe and I got a refund for reporting them. In one of them, an Uber employee reached forward from the back seat to distract the driver because the employee was concerned about being late to a party. I've seen an Uber mow over a bicyclist and then drive away as if nothing happened. Never had any of those experiences with taxis. Love the idea of rideshare, but I'm deeply convinced that Uber does not care about public safety.
  - delusional 7y ago
    That's one of the saddest statements/questions I've read in a long time.
- ryandrake 7y ago
  I happen to believe that whenever a phony gets rewarded, it's a tiny kick in the gut to everyone else who is truthful and authentic. It damages the entire ecosystem. People look to other successful people for examples of how to behave, and when frauds succeed, more people start thinking, "Well maybe that's how we're supposed to do it."
war1025 7y ago
I think the majority of people do aim for "sane, trustworthy, competent". It's just that there are a certain number of sociopaths in any population that are very interested in being the big boss.
journalctl 7y ago
Because money equals power, and we incentivize and condone the behavior. Imagine a maximum wage. How incentivized would people be to accumulate ever increasing amounts of money?

choppaface 7y ago

How damaging is Neumann’s excess, actually? The evidence and vibes in the article demonstrate a lot of greed, but not a ton of dominance. In comparison, Travis Kalanick greyballed the government, vilified competitors, and literally brewed a culture of stepping on toes. It seems Neumann wanted to start a religion, but not necessarily one centered on dominance. Neumann was evidently pretty mean to his chief of staff, but this article makes him look like an delusional angel (in many metrics) compared to TK. I personally find Neumann’s excess revolting, but it appears that the collapse of WeWork will mainly impact investor capital (primarily Softbank) versus the livelihoods and civil rights of tens of thousands of people. Or perhaps there’s more to the story?

vsareto 7y ago
Just about the only real thing is hotboxing a company jet, which I'm sure the FAA would be pleased to hear about.
- luma 7y ago
  FAA smoking regulations only cover commercial passenger airlines. Private aircraft are much less regulated. edit: pertinent regulation: https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?c=ecfr&SID=03efb7c1b34301bf39ff6d98084cdd45&rgn=div8&view=text&node=14:2.0.1.3.10.1.4.10&idno=14 https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?c=ecfr&SID=03efb7c1b34... It turns out there is a case where a private pilot has had his license suspended after his wife carried edibles purchased legally in CO onto their aircraft without his knowledge. While article (b) in the link above seems to suggest this should have been legal, it may have been a result of them having carried the marijuana over state lines into Kansas, where marijuana use remains illegal.
  - ISL 7y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_smoking#Hotboxing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_smoking#Hotboxing
  - vsareto 7y ago
    Pilots could get high by the smoke if they didn't close the cabin. Unless you can just fly under the influence with a private aircraft which would be news to me.
    - kitteh 7y ago
      There was a thread on one of the pilot forums years ago where folks who flew private jets for celebrities and musicians asked about the legalities when folks start getting high in the back. There is pressure from their companies to not get involved but if you are knowingly operating as pilot in command and transporting individuals impaired not for medical reasons it could potentially put their certificates at risk. For example if anyone filmed it and showed the crew aware of what was going on, etc. Lots of "I didn't see anything" up there.
wayoutthere 7y ago
I mean, Kalanick is up there with Zuckerberg as far as being a self-aware sociopath who doesn't care. Just because Neumann isn't as bad as Kalanick doesn't really say much.
travisoneill1 7y ago
> Travis Kalanick greyballed the government, vilified competitors, and literally brewed a culture of stepping on toes And I'm glad he did. Do you want to go back to the misery of taxis?
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- joyeuse6701 7y ago
  False dichotomy? Could we not have had some of that but not all of it?
- choppaface 7y ago
  Personally, almost half of the Uber rides I've had (more than 30) were unsafe and I got a refund for reporting them. In one of them, an Uber employee reached forward from the back seat to distract the driver because the employee was concerned about being late to a party. I've seen an Uber mow over a bicyclist and then drive away as if nothing happened. Never had any of those experiences with taxis. Love the idea of rideshare, but I'm deeply convinced that Uber does not care about public safety.
- delusional 7y ago
  That's one of the saddest statements/questions I've read in a long time.
ryandrake 7y ago
I happen to believe that whenever a phony gets rewarded, it's a tiny kick in the gut to everyone else who is truthful and authentic. It damages the entire ecosystem. People look to other successful people for examples of how to behave, and when frauds succeed, more people start thinking, "Well maybe that's how we're supposed to do it."

war1025 7y ago

I think the majority of people do aim for "sane, trustworthy, competent". It's just that there are a certain number of sociopaths in any population that are very interested in being the big boss.

journalctl 7y ago

Because money equals power, and we incentivize and condone the behavior. Imagine a maximum wage. How incentivized would people be to accumulate ever increasing amounts of money?