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By my observation anger is addictive - previously normal people get angry for maybe a good reason, and subsequently they start looking for something new to be a

by DenisM 7y ago

By my observation anger is addictive - previously normal people get angry for maybe a good reason, and subsequently they start looking for something new to be angry about. It’s a real problem because when they can’t find something worth getting worked up over they pick on a random subject and try to convince everyone their pet issue is a huge deal, and everyone who disagrees is a very bad person indeed.

pygy_ 7y ago
The propensity for tribal identity probably is as well. The exact tribe doesn't matter much (we've seen European far right activists jump ship to ISIS). Hooliganism also proves that the matter at hand doesn't have to be serious for people to kill each other. It's a tricky one to tackle because stigmatization stimulates identity. Maybe promoting a strong personal identity could help.
- kerkeslager 7y ago
  I have my doubts: in fact, I buy Paul Graham's argument that identity is the cause, not the solution, to a lot of anger. See: http://www.paulgraham.com/identity.html http://www.paulgraham.com/identity.html
  - DenisM 7y ago
    pygy_ was talking about solution to tribalism, not the self-fueling anger.
- will4274 7y ago
  > Maybe promoting a strong personal identity could help. Isn't this already overwhelmingly so? I live in the United States. Virtually all popular media (movies, music, memes) exposes messages like "be your true self" - that's promoting having strong personal identities. I actually think doing this less could help.
muzani 7y ago
It works for the other big sins - envy, lust, pride, and so on. Algorithms are really good at feeding these.
Jare 7y ago
I just saw a tweet in my timeline starting with "if you want to get FUCKING FURIOUS at" and the same thoughts popped. The issue that tweet is about is certainly a terrible thing that should be solved... but no, I do not want to get fucking furious, nobody should WANT to.
- vkou 7y ago
  And yet, you could not design a better system than Twitter if you wanted to optimize for the spread of that sort of content.
- DenisM 7y ago
  Did you click?
  - Jare 7y ago
    No, I am pretty sure I would have got very fucking angry because the headline already struck pretty close to my heart.
Reedx 7y ago
Angry thought germs spread like nothing else. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE3j_RHkqJc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE3j_RHkqJc
mam2 7y ago
Its also becase previously nice guy realizes that anger solves more problems than anything else in the world.
steve_adams_86 7y ago
Sometimes I worry that this is because people need to feel emotions, and anger is easy to feed in modern society. It's gratifying for all the wrong reasons. We should be feeding ourselves with other emotions, but anger is cheap, practically free, and requires no intimacy with another person. It makes people feel purpose, a need to resolve something, intense focus. It's a little upsetting to think about, but I'm not sure if I'm framing it differently than it really is. Maybe people have always loved to get pissed off and it's not a product of increasing social isolation causing an increasing need to feel something.
kylek 7y ago
I feel like there is a sort of dominance game at work, not necessarily just with anger but other moods too. I've noticed if someone is angry or depressed, he/she will try to bring everyone around them "down to their level" (and if you're immune, you'll be ignored). I might just be sensitive to it now since I've been thinking about this for a while, but sighing or other attention-seeking behaviors (whistling triggers me) are huge tips that someone is trying to take over and shift the mood. Often people do it subconsciously, and others around them react subconsciously as well.
- DenisM 7y ago
  Some of them might be fishing to compassion, but I know what you mean generally. I suspect that people generally try to fit their idea of the world to match the world itself, but on some issues they hate it so much they would rather change the world to match their desires, or barring that, change their perception of the world. The latter requires systematic eradication of contradicting evidence, hence the result you're observing - convincing people who can be convinced and ghosting out the rest.
- jacobolus 7y ago
  > whistling triggers me Try not to judge people (especially kids) who hum or whistle or drum their fingers or tap their feet etc. It is not necessarily a voluntary or conscious behavior, and often has nothing to do with attention seeking or other people at all (folks who do this will keep doing it even when alone).
  - kylek 7y ago
    Kids I don't mind. What came to mind when I said this were a couple of whistlers in the last open office I worked in. I honestly couldn't tell if they were completely unaware of their surroundings, or if they actually were putting down all their chips in the psychological dominance game I mentioned.
jjtheblunt 7y ago
"OMG", you just triggered an epiphany in the sense that you gave a new perspective on what i've observed in a family member. Great description, and exactly fits the observation.

by DenisM 7y ago

pygy_ 7y ago

The propensity for tribal identity probably is as well. The exact tribe doesn't matter much (we've seen European far right activists jump ship to ISIS). Hooliganism also proves that the matter at hand doesn't have to be serious for people to kill each other. It's a tricky one to tackle because stigmatization stimulates identity. Maybe promoting a strong personal identity could help.

kerkeslager 7y ago
I have my doubts: in fact, I buy Paul Graham's argument that identity is the cause, not the solution, to a lot of anger. See: http://www.paulgraham.com/identity.html http://www.paulgraham.com/identity.html
- DenisM 7y ago
  pygy_ was talking about solution to tribalism, not the self-fueling anger.
will4274 7y ago
> Maybe promoting a strong personal identity could help. Isn't this already overwhelmingly so? I live in the United States. Virtually all popular media (movies, music, memes) exposes messages like "be your true self" - that's promoting having strong personal identities. I actually think doing this less could help.

muzani 7y ago

It works for the other big sins - envy, lust, pride, and so on. Algorithms are really good at feeding these.

Jare 7y ago

I just saw a tweet in my timeline starting with "if you want to get FUCKING FURIOUS at" and the same thoughts popped. The issue that tweet is about is certainly a terrible thing that should be solved... but no, I do not want to get fucking furious, nobody should WANT to.

vkou 7y ago
And yet, you could not design a better system than Twitter if you wanted to optimize for the spread of that sort of content.
DenisM 7y ago
Did you click?
- Jare 7y ago
  No, I am pretty sure I would have got very fucking angry because the headline already struck pretty close to my heart.

Reedx 7y ago

Angry thought germs spread like nothing else. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE3j_RHkqJc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE3j_RHkqJc

mam2 7y ago

Its also becase previously nice guy realizes that anger solves more problems than anything else in the world.

steve_adams_86 7y ago

Sometimes I worry that this is because people need to feel emotions, and anger is easy to feed in modern society. It's gratifying for all the wrong reasons. We should be feeding ourselves with other emotions, but anger is cheap, practically free, and requires no intimacy with another person. It makes people feel purpose, a need to resolve something, intense focus. It's a little upsetting to think about, but I'm not sure if I'm framing it differently than it really is. Maybe people have always loved to get pissed off and it's not a product of increasing social isolation causing an increasing need to feel something.

kylek 7y ago

I feel like there is a sort of dominance game at work, not necessarily just with anger but other moods too. I've noticed if someone is angry or depressed, he/she will try to bring everyone around them "down to their level" (and if you're immune, you'll be ignored). I might just be sensitive to it now since I've been thinking about this for a while, but sighing or other attention-seeking behaviors (whistling triggers me) are huge tips that someone is trying to take over and shift the mood. Often people do it subconsciously, and others around them react subconsciously as well.

DenisM 7y ago
Some of them might be fishing to compassion, but I know what you mean generally. I suspect that people generally try to fit their idea of the world to match the world itself, but on some issues they hate it so much they would rather change the world to match their desires, or barring that, change their perception of the world. The latter requires systematic eradication of contradicting evidence, hence the result you're observing - convincing people who can be convinced and ghosting out the rest.
jacobolus 7y ago
> whistling triggers me Try not to judge people (especially kids) who hum or whistle or drum their fingers or tap their feet etc. It is not necessarily a voluntary or conscious behavior, and often has nothing to do with attention seeking or other people at all (folks who do this will keep doing it even when alone).
- kylek 7y ago
  Kids I don't mind. What came to mind when I said this were a couple of whistlers in the last open office I worked in. I honestly couldn't tell if they were completely unaware of their surroundings, or if they actually were putting down all their chips in the psychological dominance game I mentioned.

jjtheblunt 7y ago

"OMG", you just triggered an epiphany in the sense that you gave a new perspective on what i've observed in a family member. Great description, and exactly fits the observation.