I think you may have responded to the wrong post; the things you "quoted" from me, I did not say. However, here's my response to your arguments. > Look at Ger

I think you may have responded to the wrong post; the things you "quoted" from me, I did not say. However, here's my response to your arguments. > Look at German citizenry. They have equal or more rights than American[s]. Source? I'd say Americans are more free. I don't consider "positive rights" to increase liberty; you can't make one more free by requiring another to do something for him to fulfill his freedom. Doctors, houses, etc. are not rights. > better healthcare No, there is _more_ healthcare. Quality, access, and cost are the iron triangle of medicine; pick two. We picked quality and price, and those were good choices. Germany picked universality and cost; they traded some of that cost to the tax payers, and got some quality, but most cutting-edge medical research is in America. > better educational systems Before college, probably yes. I agree we should give fewer hand-outs and allocate more to education. > fly-by-night I didn't use those words; please don't claim I did. It weakens your argument. > Nordic countries have better healthcare Better is subjective; see iron triangle. > a cleaner environment Norway, for instance, makes a huge amount of money off Statoil (now Equinor). They have small population sizes relative to natural resources. This means they export things that pollute and dump that pollution elsewhere. Though Equinor is trying to sequester carbon, it's nowhere near total output and doesn't account for the by-products of O&G production. It is also only from part of one operation, and only removing CO2 from natural gas. Equinor also owned stakes in oil sands, which are absolutely horrible for the environment. Why do I bring this up? To point out that many nordic nations sell resources to others, mine resources in other nations, etc. They rely on negative externalities to pay for their extravagant welfare states. According to the wikipedia article, "Economy of Norway": "Norway's modern manufacturing and welfare system rely on a financial reserve produced by exploitation of natural resources, particularly North Sea oil." (there are four cited sources). > better transit Transit is not a right. America is significantly larger. > more walkable cities That's a right? Also, their cities are significantly smaller. > stronger privacy protections The EU takes the fundamentally-paternalistic attitude that consumers aren't smart enough to protect their own data, and that government must fill that role for them. I disagree; it's condescending and wrong. > more often than not, when compared to other "western coutnries", the US comes out behind. How do you compare that? As you said, many different ways. I'm getting the sense the things you value in your comparison constitute zero percent of mine. Many of America's issues come from being a large and very diverse nation. Nordic nations have small, homogeneous populations with little unrest. Very easy to govern a nation, keep crime rates low, etc. that way. Nothing comes without a cost. Some nations hide costs better than others. Some kick them down the road.