9 ms·

I want to ask, when you work/interview for a company like Apple, do you face ethical dilemmas due to their outward practices?

jasonpeacock 7y ago
Not really. I have to trust that those people are doing the right thing given the situation and details that I'm not fully informed about, just as they trust that I'm doing the right thing in my business area. Once I lose that trust (faith?), then it's time to move on.
nomel 7y ago
Could you give some examples of the outward practices? As it is, your comment require the reader to have the same mindset as you, which will not give the variety of perspectives you’re probably looking for.
- robbyt 7y ago
  Building products that are designed to be disposable, rather than repairable, then pretending that recycling is a reasonable solution.
  - stephencanon 7y ago
    This is a tricky tradeoff. Making products disposable can also allow different manufacturing choices that lead to less material being used up front or a more robust structure for the same material cost resulting in a lower failure rate, or lighter products and hence reduced impact from shipping. If the failure rate is low enough, those factors can beat out repairability and result in a product with lower environmental costs and resource usage on net. This is a rare situation, but for small items with low failure rates and usable lifetimes of at least a few years, it can definitely happen.
    - markstos 7y ago
      Uh, they just released $250 disposable ear buds. They replaced a trackpad that replaceable batteries that worked fine with a new model that has a non-replaceable battery. Apple seems particularly responsible for driving the demand for "truly wireless" ear buds as a status symbol.
      - papln 7y ago
        AA batteries are just as (non-)recycleable.
        Ididntdothis 7y ago
        Mine are rechargeable.
        junipertea 7y ago
        After they lose too much capacity you will have to replace them. However it's still better to replace only the battery instead of the whole device.
  - eschaton 7y ago
    What do you mean by “disposable?” As far as I know, Apple will take back any previous product for recycling.
  - ladberg 7y ago
    Why isn't recycling a reasonable solution?
  - function_seven 7y ago
    Out of all the computing devices I've ever owned, the Apple devices are by far the longest-lived (and longest-supported) ones. I still use my 2007 MacBook, my 2012 MBP, and my iPhone 6S. The 2nd gen iPad still does its job fine. These things are not disposable. Each item in the list above has had battery replacements. The 2007 MBP, I bought a 3rd party pack. The 2012 MBP was replaced free-of-charge at an Apple store. The 6S got a new battery for $29. When I do decide to get a newer phone, I'll hand in my old one at that time. I'm sure they don't just chuck it into the wastebasket.
    - claudiawerner 7y ago
      It's curious that you hand your phone back to them, especially since you paid for it without the benefit they'd get being factored in. I doubt they would have better use of it than giving it to someone who needs a phone, even an old one, such as a child, or even selling it online.
      - function_seven 7y ago
        When it comes time for me to upgrade, the phone will probably be worth $30 or so. Maybe I’ll Gazelle it instead. Or if some carrier is offering a trade in deal, use that. Or, most likely, I’ll keep it as a pseudo-iPod My point is more that I won’t just toss it in a trash can. Reusing it or recycling it is easy.
    - coolspot 7y ago
      While I agree on longevity of iOS devices, I also have 2007 MacBooks (both Pro and not). They can't get latest OSX, without latest OSX you can't get iTunes that supports iPhone X. Bootcamped Windows 7 on the same machine gets latest iTunes capable of interacting with iPhone X.
      - cstejerean 7y ago
        iTunes? What do you still use iTunes for? I don’t think I’ve used iTunes with my iPhone for probably 5 years.
gwbas1c 7y ago
That applies to almost anywhere you work. I've had to discuss "is this ethical" in my job before. The difference is that, when you work for a company that isn't a household name, you don't know the ethical issues walking in. Related: I once took a non-military contract with Foster-Miller. I couldn't find out much about the company, but while I was there, I saw a cute robot driving around the parking lot like a toy car. Turns out it was this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foster-Miller_TALON https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foster-Miller_TALON
milosdog55 7y ago
then why don't you ask?
herodotus 7y ago
I worked at a University, a startup, and at Apple. The highest level of ethics I encountered was at Apple.

jasonpeacock 7y ago

Not really. I have to trust that those people are doing the right thing given the situation and details that I'm not fully informed about, just as they trust that I'm doing the right thing in my business area. Once I lose that trust (faith?), then it's time to move on.

nomel 7y ago

Could you give some examples of the outward practices? As it is, your comment require the reader to have the same mindset as you, which will not give the variety of perspectives you’re probably looking for.

robbyt 7y ago
Building products that are designed to be disposable, rather than repairable, then pretending that recycling is a reasonable solution.
- stephencanon 7y ago
  This is a tricky tradeoff. Making products disposable can also allow different manufacturing choices that lead to less material being used up front or a more robust structure for the same material cost resulting in a lower failure rate, or lighter products and hence reduced impact from shipping. If the failure rate is low enough, those factors can beat out repairability and result in a product with lower environmental costs and resource usage on net. This is a rare situation, but for small items with low failure rates and usable lifetimes of at least a few years, it can definitely happen.
  - markstos 7y ago
    Uh, they just released $250 disposable ear buds. They replaced a trackpad that replaceable batteries that worked fine with a new model that has a non-replaceable battery. Apple seems particularly responsible for driving the demand for "truly wireless" ear buds as a status symbol.
    - papln 7y ago
      AA batteries are just as (non-)recycleable.
      - Ididntdothis 7y ago
        Mine are rechargeable.
        junipertea 7y ago
        After they lose too much capacity you will have to replace them. However it's still better to replace only the battery instead of the whole device.
- eschaton 7y ago
  What do you mean by “disposable?” As far as I know, Apple will take back any previous product for recycling.
- ladberg 7y ago
  Why isn't recycling a reasonable solution?
- function_seven 7y ago
  Out of all the computing devices I've ever owned, the Apple devices are by far the longest-lived (and longest-supported) ones. I still use my 2007 MacBook, my 2012 MBP, and my iPhone 6S. The 2nd gen iPad still does its job fine. These things are not disposable. Each item in the list above has had battery replacements. The 2007 MBP, I bought a 3rd party pack. The 2012 MBP was replaced free-of-charge at an Apple store. The 6S got a new battery for $29. When I do decide to get a newer phone, I'll hand in my old one at that time. I'm sure they don't just chuck it into the wastebasket.
  - claudiawerner 7y ago
    It's curious that you hand your phone back to them, especially since you paid for it without the benefit they'd get being factored in. I doubt they would have better use of it than giving it to someone who needs a phone, even an old one, such as a child, or even selling it online.
    - function_seven 7y ago
      When it comes time for me to upgrade, the phone will probably be worth $30 or so. Maybe I’ll Gazelle it instead. Or if some carrier is offering a trade in deal, use that. Or, most likely, I’ll keep it as a pseudo-iPod My point is more that I won’t just toss it in a trash can. Reusing it or recycling it is easy.
  - coolspot 7y ago
    While I agree on longevity of iOS devices, I also have 2007 MacBooks (both Pro and not). They can't get latest OSX, without latest OSX you can't get iTunes that supports iPhone X. Bootcamped Windows 7 on the same machine gets latest iTunes capable of interacting with iPhone X.
    - cstejerean 7y ago
      iTunes? What do you still use iTunes for? I don’t think I’ve used iTunes with my iPhone for probably 5 years.

gwbas1c 7y ago

That applies to almost anywhere you work. I've had to discuss "is this ethical" in my job before. The difference is that, when you work for a company that isn't a household name, you don't know the ethical issues walking in. Related: I once took a non-military contract with Foster-Miller. I couldn't find out much about the company, but while I was there, I saw a cute robot driving around the parking lot like a toy car. Turns out it was this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foster-Miller_TALON https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foster-Miller_TALON

milosdog55 7y ago

then why don't you ask?

herodotus 7y ago

I worked at a University, a startup, and at Apple. The highest level of ethics I encountered was at Apple.