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> Why would anyone spend thousands of dollars on a Prada handbag, an Armani suit, or a Rolex watch? If you really need to know the time, buy a cheap Timex or ju

> Why would anyone spend thousands of dollars on a Prada handbag, an Armani suit, or a Rolex watch? If you really need to know the time, buy a cheap Timex or just look at your phone and send the money you have saved to Oxfam. One issue is there's a kind of missing middle in many goods markets. There's cheap shit, and overpriced "luxury" signaling goods that may or may not be much better. Personally I often find sorting the actually-good from the faux-good on the (lower end of the) luxury side, then catching it used or on sale, easier than trying to find then assess the quality of mid-level products (if they exist at all—often they do not) or suss out unusually good cheap products. So far as signaling goes, until people stop being biased in favor of folks who look well-off (or at least "proper" for whatever setting), even when they think they're not, that won't stop being a thing worth considering. EDIT: nb. there's a lot more to this article, for those who haven't read it yet, and I'm in no way intending to dismiss it.

japhyr 7y ago
That's one of the great things about a good subreddit. A good subreddit, for me, often ends up helping me to know how to spend a reasonable amount of money in that area and come away with high-quality products. I have been lurking on r/chainsaw, r/budgetaudiophile, and others for a while. I was quite comfortable buying a $400 chainsaw, knowing what I was getting that I wouldn't find in a $200 saw, and what I didn't need in a $600 saw. The same goes for the $130 pair of speakers I just bought. I had no idea what to get from looking at Amazon, but a little time reading r/budgetaudiophile led me to an affordable pair of speakers that gave me the best listening experience I've had in decades.
- johnbrodie 7y ago
  I'd be careful here, you have to _very_ carefully assess the domain of the subreddit visitors. My own anecdotes: r/miata - Useless for the entire subgroup that takes their car to the track, and will very likely still give advice, it'll just be bad or outright dangerous. r/cigars - Totally jump on bandwagons, and generally are "new" to the world of cigars. To highlight another point, a lot of more niche subs largely cater to those new to the niche. Those are the same people commenting and giving others advice, whether they really have the knowledge to or not. This mechanism over a few months seems to turn everything into an echo chamber, and you end up with new people jumping onto a bandwagon without enough info. Same goes for Amazon reviews, to a large degree - That $50 set of sockets might be great for someone who wants to change their oil filter, but will literally shatter for someone doing more involved work. I think this is where the traditional forums are much better. I want my info from "serious" people who hang around the community for years, not from someone who came into it a few weeks ago, and really just want some upvotes/points/whatever.
  - japhyr 7y ago
    Oh, absolutely. People occasionally post videos demonstrating really unsafe chainsaw operation, or demonstrating really inexperienced operation. Those videos are quickly downvoted, or even better dissected for what the person is doing wrong and how they could improve. Same goes for the audio subs, and r/motorcycles... I find it easier to sort out on a subreddit who's an experienced, knowledgeable person, who's inexperienced, and who's a shill. I can sort that out on Amazon reviews, but I have to do that on my own each time. In a good subreddit, the community is doing that, both participants and moderators. You do have to keep an eye out for poorly-moderated or overly-shilled subs.
  - dageshi 7y ago
    r/cigars was sadly gutted after reddit banned trades on their platform. Pre ban it was probably the best general purpose cigar forum on the internet, it's essentially turned into instagram for cigars nowadays which is a real shame given what it once was.
    - japhyr 7y ago
      Yes, I've seen that evolutionary decline in other subs as well. There seems to be a general increase in photo-based submissions, and fewer substantial discussions. People seem to think the photos will inspire discussion, but they often inspire only minimal discussion.
  - tayo42 7y ago
    I think almost as a rule reddit has a really shallow level of expertise in any subreddit topic. I get really skeptical if someone recommends a subreddit as an authoritative community.
  - jacoblambda 7y ago
    I've found decent success with /r/MechanicalKeyboards/ and a good chunk of the "classy" liquor subreddits (i.e. /r/scotch et all) since you tend to have a number or regulars who you can pick up a fairly solid taste from (how close they are to your own tastes) and can pretty reliably make decisions off of that.
- MadWombat 7y ago
  Can you share your wisdom related to speakers? I need a new set and I am a bit puzzled by my choices.
  - japhyr 7y ago
    Here's the post I made this morning. I'm happy to answer any questions you have, here or over on reddit. https://www.reddit.com/r/BudgetAudiophile/comments/dq5d9c/i_am_hooked/ https://www.reddit.com/r/BudgetAudiophile/comments/dq5d9c/i_...
    - MadWombat 7y ago
      Hmm... interesting, these are half the price for pretty much the same specs as my last (and regrettably expired) ones. How are they in practice? The reviews I looked at say that they lack in the highs a little.
      - japhyr 7y ago
        I've only had them for a couple days, and I haven't listened carefully to many speakers in a long time, or ever really. So I can't really say too much specifically, other than they sound significantly better than anything I've listened to in the last decade. There's nothing more I'm wishing from them at the moment.
      - erikschoster 7y ago
        FWIW I've had the version of these that doesn't come with bluetooth (R1280T) for three years and I'm still happy with how they sound.
- awinder 7y ago
  Oh this, a thousand times. I took a job where I had to do office casual dress for the first time (I had a nice run) and there’s these great series of “your favorite ___ for ___“ posts. People breaking down in price tiers what & why they like stuff, it’s such a fantastic resource.
- thrower123 7y ago
  Chainsaws are one thing you do want to spend money on and buy the best. Most of the cheaper homeowner saws are, in my opinion, unsafe garbage that should just be tossed. Especially for somebody that doesn't use a saw all the time. A heavier saw with more distance between the handgrips is going to be easier to control and kick back less if you do get in trouble, and that's one of the biggest ways people get hurt. Or if you try to do something that the saw isn't big enough to handle, which is another thing that people do all too often. You can still find some of the cheapest trash that don't even have chain brakes... If you buy a Husqvarna 372 or a Stihl 441, you'll probably never need to buy another saw in your lifetime. I prefer the Husky 372 (and older models like the 262 and 288), because it has a separate on/off switch and choke, whereas most saws have a one-piece switch/choke, with an off, on, and choke position - if it's cold and I've got gloves on, it's too easy to flip the lever down too far when starting, and shut Stihls and the cheaper Huskies off.
dragontamer 7y ago
> Personally I often find sorting the actually-good from the faux-good on the (lower end of the) luxury side, then catching it used or on sale, easier than trying to find then assess the quality of mid-level products (if they exist at all—often they do not) or suss out unusually good cheap products. There was a time when I trusted Amazon reviews, but the 5-star bots, and now the 1-star griefers, have totally eradicated any trust I have in that system. Amazon's crowdsourced methodology has been corrupted by greed. Reddit works for now, but I also question the long-term sustainability of Reddit. Popular Reddits are clearly becoming more-and-more visited by shills and marketing teams. This is useful in some Reddits (ex: /r/AMD) for now, since it provides a communication channel to the company. But there's this feeling of astroturfing that I can't shake... a more "malicious" company could very well ruin the careful balance we have. In the long term, its clear to me that marketing shills will too ruin the Reddit / community methodology. Its impossible to tell who is, or who isn't, a shill. After all, shills simply pretend to be fanboys posting from normal accounts, and they're getting better at it. In the longer term, I think something old-school, like Consumer Reports, is best. What we really need is a team of trusted 3rd party reviewers, who are independently funded __outside__ of the advertisement system. Yes, OUTSIDE the advertisement system. So that kills YouTube (yeah, Gamer's Nexus is good but... Steve constantly has to worry about pissing off his advertisers. Same with Linus Tech Tips: they're subservient to the ads whether they like it or not). It also kills most websites, which are reliant upon ad revenue. Its absolutely imperative that your 3rd party review site has the financial independence to be able to issue "negative reviews". Even newspapers of old are clearly a poor model: as its basically impossible to tell the difference between an "advertisement-article" and an "actual investigative article" upon publishing. And since most old-school newspapers got money from advertisers, there is still a conflict of interest when you start to follow the money. Consumer Reports is unfortunately stuck in an age-old era. There needs to be a more modernized version, with more recent hardware reviews, better discussion forums, better community engagement, etc. etc. A combination of Reddit-like discussions, but with a core set of trusted reviewers who can lead the community (and who can be trusted to be "non-shills"). Shills and marketers should be welcome to a site: Marketing is not bad in of itself. But they need to be carefully moderated and probably should be publicly noted as an official representative of a company. Policing shills is probably impossible to enforce in the long run, but the prevalence of trusted writers independent of outside finances is the core issue of trust that needs to be built.
Domenic_S 7y ago
> trying to find then assess the quality of mid-level products People have done this work for you and the market is the indicator. The better item is the one that depreciates less, with caveats. One strategy is to check ebay to see how close second-hand prices are to retail price. It doesn't work with everything -- electronics are especially bad with this indicator -- but pretty good for physical items.
maxerickson 7y ago
Any crystal Timex will be a fine watch and they are ~$30 to start. If you buy some fashion watch, who the hell knows what you will get, for who the hell knows how much. So the quoted paragraph is not a great example of the conundrum you describe, the cheap products work great and a simple selection criteria like "Buy the Timex or Casio you think looks nicer" will be very successful.
- kijin 7y ago
  It could still be a good example. You know that Timex and Casio are decent purveyors of low-cost watches. You know the difference between a traditional watch brand and a newfangled fashion brand. But someone who is buying a watch for the first time might not. The market is so saturated with cheap crap, and YouTube is full of videos peddling luxury brands. Confused with the apparent polarization, the newbie asks around, and the friendly neighborhood watch enthusiast tells them to get a Tissot or Hamilton instead. Of course that's nowhere near high-end, but they've still paid 10x more unnecessarily.
kijin 7y ago
> One issue is there's a kind of missing middle in many goods markets. I agree. It's gotten worse in every area from clothes to shoes to furniture to accessories since cheap shit started flooding the market. For example, I usually try to be as frugal as I can with clothes, but that means trying to sort out a few good ones from the pile of polyester crap that sheds microplastic every time you wash them. It's such a waste of time that nowadays I just move up to the next price bracket where most products are made of real wool and/or cotton. I can easily see why someone who is comfortable with shelling out even more money will choose to ignore all the consumer brands and go straight to high-end brands that are guaranteed to be good. Watches are a whole different game, though. There are plenty of good products in nearly every price range. Bill Gates seems happy with his $40 Casio Duro.
- shantly 7y ago
  > It's such a waste of time that nowadays I just move up to the next price bracket where most products are made of real wool and/or cotton. Yeah, I found my sizing in a couple decent-ish brands that hardly deal in synthetic fabrics at all, and just buy them during seasonal sales (on their websites) or at thrift stores. Shoes? Seconds and ebay. $9 for a thrifted button-up that's $80 new ($45 on sale), looks & fits nicer than something from Target or The Gap or whatever, and will actually hold up for a few years (in a rotation) ain't bad at all. Sale prices are nearly as low as normal prices on much worse clothes. Saves money for the occasional splurge item for stuff that's hard to thrift or get used (jackets and suits are tough), and even with a few of those my wardrobe looks similar to someone who's spending 3-4x what I am on clothes but being less frugal about it. But it definitely took a lot of up-front effort (research, finding sizing, a few full-price items or gambles on stuff on ebay to get all that dialed in) to get to this point.

japhyr 7y ago

That's one of the great things about a good subreddit. A good subreddit, for me, often ends up helping me to know how to spend a reasonable amount of money in that area and come away with high-quality products. I have been lurking on r/chainsaw, r/budgetaudiophile, and others for a while. I was quite comfortable buying a $400 chainsaw, knowing what I was getting that I wouldn't find in a $200 saw, and what I didn't need in a $600 saw. The same goes for the $130 pair of speakers I just bought. I had no idea what to get from looking at Amazon, but a little time reading r/budgetaudiophile led me to an affordable pair of speakers that gave me the best listening experience I've had in decades.

johnbrodie 7y ago
I'd be careful here, you have to _very_ carefully assess the domain of the subreddit visitors. My own anecdotes: r/miata - Useless for the entire subgroup that takes their car to the track, and will very likely still give advice, it'll just be bad or outright dangerous. r/cigars - Totally jump on bandwagons, and generally are "new" to the world of cigars. To highlight another point, a lot of more niche subs largely cater to those new to the niche. Those are the same people commenting and giving others advice, whether they really have the knowledge to or not. This mechanism over a few months seems to turn everything into an echo chamber, and you end up with new people jumping onto a bandwagon without enough info. Same goes for Amazon reviews, to a large degree - That $50 set of sockets might be great for someone who wants to change their oil filter, but will literally shatter for someone doing more involved work. I think this is where the traditional forums are much better. I want my info from "serious" people who hang around the community for years, not from someone who came into it a few weeks ago, and really just want some upvotes/points/whatever.
- japhyr 7y ago
  Oh, absolutely. People occasionally post videos demonstrating really unsafe chainsaw operation, or demonstrating really inexperienced operation. Those videos are quickly downvoted, or even better dissected for what the person is doing wrong and how they could improve. Same goes for the audio subs, and r/motorcycles... I find it easier to sort out on a subreddit who's an experienced, knowledgeable person, who's inexperienced, and who's a shill. I can sort that out on Amazon reviews, but I have to do that on my own each time. In a good subreddit, the community is doing that, both participants and moderators. You do have to keep an eye out for poorly-moderated or overly-shilled subs.
- dageshi 7y ago
  r/cigars was sadly gutted after reddit banned trades on their platform. Pre ban it was probably the best general purpose cigar forum on the internet, it's essentially turned into instagram for cigars nowadays which is a real shame given what it once was.
  - japhyr 7y ago
    Yes, I've seen that evolutionary decline in other subs as well. There seems to be a general increase in photo-based submissions, and fewer substantial discussions. People seem to think the photos will inspire discussion, but they often inspire only minimal discussion.
- tayo42 7y ago
  I think almost as a rule reddit has a really shallow level of expertise in any subreddit topic. I get really skeptical if someone recommends a subreddit as an authoritative community.
- jacoblambda 7y ago
  I've found decent success with /r/MechanicalKeyboards/ and a good chunk of the "classy" liquor subreddits (i.e. /r/scotch et all) since you tend to have a number or regulars who you can pick up a fairly solid taste from (how close they are to your own tastes) and can pretty reliably make decisions off of that.
MadWombat 7y ago
Can you share your wisdom related to speakers? I need a new set and I am a bit puzzled by my choices.
- japhyr 7y ago
  Here's the post I made this morning. I'm happy to answer any questions you have, here or over on reddit. https://www.reddit.com/r/BudgetAudiophile/comments/dq5d9c/i_am_hooked/ https://www.reddit.com/r/BudgetAudiophile/comments/dq5d9c/i_...
  - MadWombat 7y ago
    Hmm... interesting, these are half the price for pretty much the same specs as my last (and regrettably expired) ones. How are they in practice? The reviews I looked at say that they lack in the highs a little.
    - japhyr 7y ago
      I've only had them for a couple days, and I haven't listened carefully to many speakers in a long time, or ever really. So I can't really say too much specifically, other than they sound significantly better than anything I've listened to in the last decade. There's nothing more I'm wishing from them at the moment.
    - erikschoster 7y ago
      FWIW I've had the version of these that doesn't come with bluetooth (R1280T) for three years and I'm still happy with how they sound.
awinder 7y ago
Oh this, a thousand times. I took a job where I had to do office casual dress for the first time (I had a nice run) and there’s these great series of “your favorite ___ for ___“ posts. People breaking down in price tiers what & why they like stuff, it’s such a fantastic resource.
thrower123 7y ago
Chainsaws are one thing you do want to spend money on and buy the best. Most of the cheaper homeowner saws are, in my opinion, unsafe garbage that should just be tossed. Especially for somebody that doesn't use a saw all the time. A heavier saw with more distance between the handgrips is going to be easier to control and kick back less if you do get in trouble, and that's one of the biggest ways people get hurt. Or if you try to do something that the saw isn't big enough to handle, which is another thing that people do all too often. You can still find some of the cheapest trash that don't even have chain brakes... If you buy a Husqvarna 372 or a Stihl 441, you'll probably never need to buy another saw in your lifetime. I prefer the Husky 372 (and older models like the 262 and 288), because it has a separate on/off switch and choke, whereas most saws have a one-piece switch/choke, with an off, on, and choke position - if it's cold and I've got gloves on, it's too easy to flip the lever down too far when starting, and shut Stihls and the cheaper Huskies off.

dragontamer 7y ago

> Personally I often find sorting the actually-good from the faux-good on the (lower end of the) luxury side, then catching it used or on sale, easier than trying to find then assess the quality of mid-level products (if they exist at all—often they do not) or suss out unusually good cheap products. There was a time when I trusted Amazon reviews, but the 5-star bots, and now the 1-star griefers, have totally eradicated any trust I have in that system. Amazon's crowdsourced methodology has been corrupted by greed. Reddit works for now, but I also question the long-term sustainability of Reddit. Popular Reddits are clearly becoming more-and-more visited by shills and marketing teams. This is useful in some Reddits (ex: /r/AMD) for now, since it provides a communication channel to the company. But there's this feeling of astroturfing that I can't shake... a more "malicious" company could very well ruin the careful balance we have. In the long term, its clear to me that marketing shills will too ruin the Reddit / community methodology. Its impossible to tell who is, or who isn't, a shill. After all, shills simply pretend to be fanboys posting from normal accounts, and they're getting better at it. In the longer term, I think something old-school, like Consumer Reports, is best. What we really need is a team of trusted 3rd party reviewers, who are independently funded __outside__ of the advertisement system. Yes, OUTSIDE the advertisement system. So that kills YouTube (yeah, Gamer's Nexus is good but... Steve constantly has to worry about pissing off his advertisers. Same with Linus Tech Tips: they're subservient to the ads whether they like it or not). It also kills most websites, which are reliant upon ad revenue. Its absolutely imperative that your 3rd party review site has the financial independence to be able to issue "negative reviews". Even newspapers of old are clearly a poor model: as its basically impossible to tell the difference between an "advertisement-article" and an "actual investigative article" upon publishing. And since most old-school newspapers got money from advertisers, there is still a conflict of interest when you start to follow the money. Consumer Reports is unfortunately stuck in an age-old era. There needs to be a more modernized version, with more recent hardware reviews, better discussion forums, better community engagement, etc. etc. A combination of Reddit-like discussions, but with a core set of trusted reviewers who can lead the community (and who can be trusted to be "non-shills"). Shills and marketers should be welcome to a site: Marketing is not bad in of itself. But they need to be carefully moderated and probably should be publicly noted as an official representative of a company. Policing shills is probably impossible to enforce in the long run, but the prevalence of trusted writers independent of outside finances is the core issue of trust that needs to be built.

Domenic_S 7y ago

> trying to find then assess the quality of mid-level products People have done this work for you and the market is the indicator. The better item is the one that depreciates less, with caveats. One strategy is to check ebay to see how close second-hand prices are to retail price. It doesn't work with everything -- electronics are especially bad with this indicator -- but pretty good for physical items.

maxerickson 7y ago

Any crystal Timex will be a fine watch and they are ~$30 to start. If you buy some fashion watch, who the hell knows what you will get, for who the hell knows how much. So the quoted paragraph is not a great example of the conundrum you describe, the cheap products work great and a simple selection criteria like "Buy the Timex or Casio you think looks nicer" will be very successful.

kijin 7y ago
It could still be a good example. You know that Timex and Casio are decent purveyors of low-cost watches. You know the difference between a traditional watch brand and a newfangled fashion brand. But someone who is buying a watch for the first time might not. The market is so saturated with cheap crap, and YouTube is full of videos peddling luxury brands. Confused with the apparent polarization, the newbie asks around, and the friendly neighborhood watch enthusiast tells them to get a Tissot or Hamilton instead. Of course that's nowhere near high-end, but they've still paid 10x more unnecessarily.

kijin 7y ago

> One issue is there's a kind of missing middle in many goods markets. I agree. It's gotten worse in every area from clothes to shoes to furniture to accessories since cheap shit started flooding the market. For example, I usually try to be as frugal as I can with clothes, but that means trying to sort out a few good ones from the pile of polyester crap that sheds microplastic every time you wash them. It's such a waste of time that nowadays I just move up to the next price bracket where most products are made of real wool and/or cotton. I can easily see why someone who is comfortable with shelling out even more money will choose to ignore all the consumer brands and go straight to high-end brands that are guaranteed to be good. Watches are a whole different game, though. There are plenty of good products in nearly every price range. Bill Gates seems happy with his $40 Casio Duro.

shantly 7y ago
> It's such a waste of time that nowadays I just move up to the next price bracket where most products are made of real wool and/or cotton. Yeah, I found my sizing in a couple decent-ish brands that hardly deal in synthetic fabrics at all, and just buy them during seasonal sales (on their websites) or at thrift stores. Shoes? Seconds and ebay. $9 for a thrifted button-up that's $80 new ($45 on sale), looks & fits nicer than something from Target or The Gap or whatever, and will actually hold up for a few years (in a rotation) ain't bad at all. Sale prices are nearly as low as normal prices on much worse clothes. Saves money for the occasional splurge item for stuff that's hard to thrift or get used (jackets and suits are tough), and even with a few of those my wardrobe looks similar to someone who's spending 3-4x what I am on clothes but being less frugal about it. But it definitely took a lot of up-front effort (research, finding sizing, a few full-price items or gambles on stuff on ebay to get all that dialed in) to get to this point.