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If that non-US culture advocates that democracy is a threat to society, or that political re-education camps are not an issue, I would say that yes, we need to

by angott 7y ago

If that non-US culture advocates that democracy is a threat to society, or that political re-education camps are not an issue, I would say that yes, we need to keep that out.

wruza 7y ago
I didn’t know TikTok was doing these things. Well, in this case it deserves to be shut down obviously.
interactivecode 7y ago
[citation needed]
- CharlesColeman 7y ago
  >> If that non-US culture advocates that democracy is a threat to society, or that political re-education camps are not an issue, I would say that yes, we need to keep that out. > [citation needed] The "non-US culture" framing of the GP and GGP is ignorant and wrong, but what they say is certainly true with regards to the party and government: https://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/20/world/asia/chinas-new-leadership-takes-hard-line-in-secret-memo.html https://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/20/world/asia/chinas-new-lea... > Communist Party cadres have filled meeting halls around China to hear a somber, secretive warning issued by senior leaders. Power could escape their grip, they have been told, unless the party eradicates seven subversive currents coursing through Chinese society.... The first was “Western constitutional democracy”; others included promoting “universal values” of human rights, Western-inspired notions of media independence and civic participation, ardently pro-market “neo-liberalism,” and “nihilist” criticisms of the party’s traumatic past. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/01/world/asia/china-student-informers.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/01/world/asia/china-student-... > ...students are increasingly playing a key role by monitoring how teachers view Mr. Xi, the party and ideas like democracy. In exchange, they are promised rewards like scholarships, higher grades and advancement within prestigious Communist Party groups. > Ankang University in northwest China said in an online notice that student informers should formally report professors who spread superstition, cults and pornography, “promote Western political values,” and criticize the party’s tenets. School administrators, the notice says, should respond to each complaint within three working days.
outuiorew 7y ago
How exactly would you show such a complex topic in these 10 second music skits?
- angott 7y ago
  It would take them very little to pivot from music skits to a wider variety of videos including news like Facebook does, for instance.
  - wruza 7y ago
    So we were discussing preventive measures? I thought it was immediate >advocates that democracy is a threat to society, or that political re-education camps are not an issue Now it is even more confusing.
codedokode 7y ago
What about freedom of speech? Or it doesn't apply to Chinese mobile apps?
esoterica 7y ago
One of the central principles of western democracy is that freedom of speech is a good thing and everyone should have the right to advocate for ideas even if they are bad. The opposite philosophy, which is fairly prevalent in many parts of the world, is that it is the role of the government and societal elites to control the flow of information so that bad ideas (as defined by the people in power, of course) don’t gain traction. It’s pretty hilarious that you are adopting the latter perspective and arguing for more government censorship to “defend democracy”. Are you sure you really understand democracy?
- angott 7y ago
  While your points make total sense and I agree with what you say, I personally believe that letting Chinese firms acquire control of US social media companies is a way greater threat to Western freedom of speech than what we would lose by blocking these acquisitions. Can you imagine a future in which we’ll be unable to post anti-government content online because most Internet properties are owned by Chinese companies which follow their local regulation? That would be the death of freedom of speech. You do not necessarily need content censorship to keep CCP ideas out of the West. You can keep them out by means of economic policies. And I feel like Western countries are not doing a good enough job at this, whereas the PRC government has been extremely efficient at blocking foreign entities.

by angott 7y ago

If that non-US culture advocates that democracy is a threat to society, or that political re-education camps are not an issue, I would say that yes, we need to keep that out.

wruza 7y ago

I didn’t know TikTok was doing these things. Well, in this case it deserves to be shut down obviously.

interactivecode 7y ago

[citation needed]

CharlesColeman 7y ago
>> If that non-US culture advocates that democracy is a threat to society, or that political re-education camps are not an issue, I would say that yes, we need to keep that out. > [citation needed] The "non-US culture" framing of the GP and GGP is ignorant and wrong, but what they say is certainly true with regards to the party and government: https://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/20/world/asia/chinas-new-leadership-takes-hard-line-in-secret-memo.html https://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/20/world/asia/chinas-new-lea... > Communist Party cadres have filled meeting halls around China to hear a somber, secretive warning issued by senior leaders. Power could escape their grip, they have been told, unless the party eradicates seven subversive currents coursing through Chinese society.... The first was “Western constitutional democracy”; others included promoting “universal values” of human rights, Western-inspired notions of media independence and civic participation, ardently pro-market “neo-liberalism,” and “nihilist” criticisms of the party’s traumatic past. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/01/world/asia/china-student-informers.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/01/world/asia/china-student-... > ...students are increasingly playing a key role by monitoring how teachers view Mr. Xi, the party and ideas like democracy. In exchange, they are promised rewards like scholarships, higher grades and advancement within prestigious Communist Party groups. > Ankang University in northwest China said in an online notice that student informers should formally report professors who spread superstition, cults and pornography, “promote Western political values,” and criticize the party’s tenets. School administrators, the notice says, should respond to each complaint within three working days.

outuiorew 7y ago

How exactly would you show such a complex topic in these 10 second music skits?

angott 7y ago
It would take them very little to pivot from music skits to a wider variety of videos including news like Facebook does, for instance.
- wruza 7y ago
  So we were discussing preventive measures? I thought it was immediate >advocates that democracy is a threat to society, or that political re-education camps are not an issue Now it is even more confusing.

codedokode 7y ago

What about freedom of speech? Or it doesn't apply to Chinese mobile apps?

esoterica 7y ago

One of the central principles of western democracy is that freedom of speech is a good thing and everyone should have the right to advocate for ideas even if they are bad. The opposite philosophy, which is fairly prevalent in many parts of the world, is that it is the role of the government and societal elites to control the flow of information so that bad ideas (as defined by the people in power, of course) don’t gain traction. It’s pretty hilarious that you are adopting the latter perspective and arguing for more government censorship to “defend democracy”. Are you sure you really understand democracy?

angott 7y ago
While your points make total sense and I agree with what you say, I personally believe that letting Chinese firms acquire control of US social media companies is a way greater threat to Western freedom of speech than what we would lose by blocking these acquisitions. Can you imagine a future in which we’ll be unable to post anti-government content online because most Internet properties are owned by Chinese companies which follow their local regulation? That would be the death of freedom of speech. You do not necessarily need content censorship to keep CCP ideas out of the West. You can keep them out by means of economic policies. And I feel like Western countries are not doing a good enough job at this, whereas the PRC government has been extremely efficient at blocking foreign entities.