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A detention facility is not a “cage”. These are people that entered the country illegally so yes, they will be detained in some fashion. Do you expect them to b

A detention facility is not a “cage”. These are people that entered the country illegally so yes, they will be detained in some fashion. Do you expect them to be kept in single family homes?

shadowgovt 7y ago
That's certainly an option if people were to offer. There are several charities that do offer such things. This administration will not entertain that suggestion because the goal is to maximize the pain inflicted on immigrants and refugees in an ill-conceived attempt to stem the tide via fear. So instead... https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2019/07/08/18/us-border-migrant-facility.jpg https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/imag...
- malvosenior 7y ago
  The goal is to minimize illegal immigration. And yes, that looks like a pretty standard detention facility to me. Every person in there knew the risk before deciding to break the law.
  - shadowgovt 7y ago
    > Every person in there knew the risk before deciding to break the law. That's a delightful lie Americans can tell themselves to try and absolve their personal consciences of responsibility for their part in their country making people miserable on purpose. It falls apart pretty quickly with any investigation (I'm sure that shoeless toddler on the left weighed all the pros and cons before crossing the border), but even if it didn't, it acknowledges the goal is to make people miserable on purpose to deter them from seeking a better life. Used to be, the United States stood for more than that. At least, it aspired to. No wonder Github has employees walking over the company voluntarily buying into that shitty behavior.
    - malvosenior 7y ago
      Most people have the capacity to do basic math and know that we can't support millions of refugees flooding into the country. You can blame that toddler's parents for making the decisions that put them in that position btw.
      - shadowgovt 7y ago
        > we can't support millions of refugees flooding into the country [citation needed]. It's certainly the terror gripping some percent of Americans these days that maybe we can't, but why? We're spending a fortune on deterrence. What if we retargeted for naturalization and education instead? Flattened the complexity of the process and increased the legal caps by a factor of 10 or 100? What's worst case scenario, and how probable is it? It's weird to think a country that is generating enough surveillance to trigger some of the other threads on HN doesn't have enough resources to track immigrants on their process to becoming permanent residents or citizens without caging them.
        malvosenior 7y ago
        Our infrastructure is already in bad shape, a bunch of shanty towns is not going to help. The same people that want open immigration also want free healthcare for all and student loan forgiveness. Who pays for all of this? Millions of American's are struggling, it's totally logical that people would look at this situation and say "why not help people who already live here before letting millions of more people pour in". The reason we don't help people who already live here is because we can't afford to. I'm skilled enough to make a good living but I'm taxed to the hilt and can't take on any more burden. Many others rightly feel the same way.
        shadowgovt 7y ago
        It's logical that people react that way, but it's a fear-based reaction that fails to acknowledge possible solutions. For example, people who are working on the fringes of society as undocumented immigrants aren't paying as many taxes into the system because they legally can't, not necessarily because they don't want to. How much tax money is bad immigration policy leaving on the table? If you don't want your taxes to go up, you ought to consider advocating for making more undocumented immigrants into taxpaying citizens. Spread the burden. If one doesn't approach these problems as sorted and stack-ranked (i.e. "we can't help immigrants if we can't even help our own population"), solutions open up. Housing is not actually as big a concern as people make it out to be. Housing in major population centers is a concern. The federal government has programs to help immigrants establish communities around the country, including neighborhoods with more housing than people (which we have quite a few of as our population ages and people move towards the cities). Those programs, of course, are targeted to help documented immigrants; making it easier to be a documented immigrant makes it easier to minimize the risk of shanty-town glut. Historically, it's rare for a country (especially an empire, which the United States basically functions as de facto due to its sheer size and impact) to encounter problems that can't be ameliorated by more hands and minds. Barring people from participating in society when they're already in society doesn't make those problems easier to solve.

A detention facility is not a “cage”. These are people that entered the country illegally so yes, they will be detained in some fashion. Do you expect them to be kept in single family homes?

shadowgovt 7y ago

That's certainly an option if people were to offer. There are several charities that do offer such things. This administration will not entertain that suggestion because the goal is to maximize the pain inflicted on immigrants and refugees in an ill-conceived attempt to stem the tide via fear. So instead... https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2019/07/08/18/us-border-migrant-facility.jpg https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/imag...

malvosenior 7y ago
The goal is to minimize illegal immigration. And yes, that looks like a pretty standard detention facility to me. Every person in there knew the risk before deciding to break the law.
- shadowgovt 7y ago
  > Every person in there knew the risk before deciding to break the law. That's a delightful lie Americans can tell themselves to try and absolve their personal consciences of responsibility for their part in their country making people miserable on purpose. It falls apart pretty quickly with any investigation (I'm sure that shoeless toddler on the left weighed all the pros and cons before crossing the border), but even if it didn't, it acknowledges the goal is to make people miserable on purpose to deter them from seeking a better life. Used to be, the United States stood for more than that. At least, it aspired to. No wonder Github has employees walking over the company voluntarily buying into that shitty behavior.
  - malvosenior 7y ago
    Most people have the capacity to do basic math and know that we can't support millions of refugees flooding into the country. You can blame that toddler's parents for making the decisions that put them in that position btw.
    - shadowgovt 7y ago
      > we can't support millions of refugees flooding into the country [citation needed]. It's certainly the terror gripping some percent of Americans these days that maybe we can't, but why? We're spending a fortune on deterrence. What if we retargeted for naturalization and education instead? Flattened the complexity of the process and increased the legal caps by a factor of 10 or 100? What's worst case scenario, and how probable is it? It's weird to think a country that is generating enough surveillance to trigger some of the other threads on HN doesn't have enough resources to track immigrants on their process to becoming permanent residents or citizens without caging them.
      - malvosenior 7y ago
        Our infrastructure is already in bad shape, a bunch of shanty towns is not going to help. The same people that want open immigration also want free healthcare for all and student loan forgiveness. Who pays for all of this? Millions of American's are struggling, it's totally logical that people would look at this situation and say "why not help people who already live here before letting millions of more people pour in". The reason we don't help people who already live here is because we can't afford to. I'm skilled enough to make a good living but I'm taxed to the hilt and can't take on any more burden. Many others rightly feel the same way.
        shadowgovt 7y ago
        It's logical that people react that way, but it's a fear-based reaction that fails to acknowledge possible solutions. For example, people who are working on the fringes of society as undocumented immigrants aren't paying as many taxes into the system because they legally can't, not necessarily because they don't want to. How much tax money is bad immigration policy leaving on the table? If you don't want your taxes to go up, you ought to consider advocating for making more undocumented immigrants into taxpaying citizens. Spread the burden. If one doesn't approach these problems as sorted and stack-ranked (i.e. "we can't help immigrants if we can't even help our own population"), solutions open up. Housing is not actually as big a concern as people make it out to be. Housing in major population centers is a concern. The federal government has programs to help immigrants establish communities around the country, including neighborhoods with more housing than people (which we have quite a few of as our population ages and people move towards the cities). Those programs, of course, are targeted to help documented immigrants; making it easier to be a documented immigrant makes it easier to minimize the risk of shanty-town glut. Historically, it's rare for a country (especially an empire, which the United States basically functions as de facto due to its sheer size and impact) to encounter problems that can't be ameliorated by more hands and minds. Barring people from participating in society when they're already in society doesn't make those problems easier to solve.