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Let's not fall into denialism here. There's absolutely no doubt that being a Jewish woman mathematician in the 1930s was doubly difficult than being a male Jewi
by jordigh 7y ago
Let's not fall into denialism here. There's absolutely no doubt that being a Jewish woman mathematician in the 1930s was doubly difficult than being a male Jewish mathematician -- double the discrimination. Calling Geiringer's situation "example-ism" is up there with doubting the sky is blue because I said I saw blue skies in Italy one time.
- whatshisface 7y agoI have never seen any evidence that women were discriminated against in 1930s mathematics other than specific stories about women being treated coldly by the establishment. I have certainly never seen anyone compare their cold treatment to the ambient coldness. Look at it this way. If I told you every time a coin came up heads, how many reports would it take for you to conclude that it was biased? The right answer is "the conclusion may never be reached," because I'm not allowing you to tally up the number of times it came up tails. Likewise, despite the huge number of stories about women being denied appointments despite having made significant contributions, no conclusion can be drawn until there is some indication that the effect is unique to women. Another important point is that even if the 1930s were awful and sexist, there may have been islands of relatively fair people. So in the interest of remembing them as they deserve, it is best to check each social group individually for evidence of their bad behavior, so that you don't end up remembering the one admissions committee that wasn't sexist as just another bias enforcement team.
- elliekelly 7y ago> I have never seen any evidence that women were discriminated against in 1930s mathematics other than specific stories about women being treated coldly by the establishment. So you've seen no evidence of discrimination... other than specific stories of discrimination? What do you think discrimination in academia looks like? A giant sign on the front door of the university that says "NO GIRLS ALLOWED"? Geiringer was the first woman professor of Mathematics in Germany but she probably wasn't the first woman in Germany who was qualified to hold that position.
- whatshisface 7y agoThere is no number of specific stories that should convince anyone, unless there is also some indication that they are being evenly sampled! You would have to compare all of the stories of men who were denied appointments to make a conclusion. To get a probability from a count, you have to divide by something.
- Voloskaya 7y agoI mean, isn't the fact that there were virtually no women in academia back in the time a convincing enough proof in itself that there was, indeed, discrimination?
- whatshisface 7y agoDiscrimination on the part of gatekeepers isn't the only thing that can keep minorities out. A culture that tells them not to try doing it because it isn't their assigned role, a fear of being the only one of their group among a majority of another group, and earlier discrimination that prevents them from getting qualifications but isn't the fault of the gatekeeper could all be responsible. Given the information I know and what has been brought up in this discussion, University mathematicians could have been perfectly willing to hire women.
- whiddershins 7y ago
- fmajid 7y agoAn interesting comparison would be with Srinivasa Ramanujan. Male but non-white, and from a poor background. Also Emmy Noether, also Jewish, German and female, whose contributions to both mathematics and physics are much more significant, fundamental even. Also, I doubt her being Jewish was a factor of academic discrimination, as opposed to the more general Nazi persecution she endured. We're not talking about Moses Mendelssohn breaking through glass ceilings in the 18th Century but the 20th by when Jewish intellectuals like Hilbert or Einstein (or more controversially, Fritz Haber) held a commanding place in science and academia.