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> Liberal democracy is going to die. Data is becoming the raw materialization of power, and this is making dictatorships more efficient than ever before. Why n

> Liberal democracy is going to die. Data is becoming the raw materialization of power, and this is making dictatorships more efficient than ever before. Why not make the data public? If data is power, you criminalize the hoarding of data, and require it to be shared openly with all. We would still be headed toward a surveillance state, which comes with a high risk of authoritarianism, but at least we would have a shot at keeping it democratic.

borjamoya 7y ago
The thing is that data by itself is useless. You need the right infrastructure to make it work. Data without context is not information. But the point here is that there's data that shouldn't be collected in the first place. And that data, especially biometric data, is what allows data autocrats hack human beings. And you don't need a lot of data to hack a human being. Just enough to know someone better than that person knows himself or herself.
- naringas 7y ago
  > But the point here is that there's data that shouldn't be collected in the first place I just don't think that's feasible. The cat cannot be put back in the box (so to speak). I think the solution goes more in line with open transparency. Yet individual privacy is really important. The only way through, I think, is to guarantee individual privacy but enforce institutional transparency.
  - borjamoya 7y ago
    The problem of this way of thinking is that it makes “okay” to collect data that is not necessary for the app in order to work. It's not feasible because there's a huge economic logic behind that data collection. While the truth is that most services (even innovation) would still work with a few data points. I mean, Google Maps doesn’t need to collect all the data it collects, but it sells us the benefit with an imminent long-tail of problems.
bilbo0s 7y ago
>at least we would have a shot at keeping it democratic If by democratic you mean freedom to form outrage mobs then I'd agree, but I don't think that would be a good thing. Having thousands of people in some community screaming for the head of some kid who said something dumb about his school and his dad's rifle on a Call of Duty discord is not going to end well for the kid. I'm not sure I believe in completely open data because entire populations with access to it are not completely rational.
- naringas 7y ago
  > I'm not sure I believe in completely open data because entire populations with access to it are not completely rational. certainly not. but we are at the beginning of a cultural shift in line with the renaissance and the age of enlightnement which vastly changed the cultural mindset quite a bit. before these previous 'cultural revolutions' what people considered rational was different.
  - bilbo0s 7y ago
    I think we agree that we are in the middle of a cultural shift, but I don't think it's going where you think it is. It's exactly this cultural shift that I'm worried about. What exactly does crowdsourced school security look like in an environment of radically open data? I just think you're being very optimistic.
    - naringas 7y ago
      no one can tell where will end up. regardless, I don't think it's optimism because I don't think I will leave long enough to see such a world, at best we will leave through the roughest part of the shift. this level of cultural transformation takes more tha a few of generations. in any case, I see something else regarding the way in which individual humans are aware of the relationship to their supporting society which translates up to the way in which a distinct society sees itself as a component of a larger system. where do you think this is going?
- vixen99 7y ago

borjamoya 7y ago

The thing is that data by itself is useless. You need the right infrastructure to make it work. Data without context is not information. But the point here is that there's data that shouldn't be collected in the first place. And that data, especially biometric data, is what allows data autocrats hack human beings. And you don't need a lot of data to hack a human being. Just enough to know someone better than that person knows himself or herself.

naringas 7y ago
> But the point here is that there's data that shouldn't be collected in the first place I just don't think that's feasible. The cat cannot be put back in the box (so to speak). I think the solution goes more in line with open transparency. Yet individual privacy is really important. The only way through, I think, is to guarantee individual privacy but enforce institutional transparency.
- borjamoya 7y ago
  The problem of this way of thinking is that it makes “okay” to collect data that is not necessary for the app in order to work. It's not feasible because there's a huge economic logic behind that data collection. While the truth is that most services (even innovation) would still work with a few data points. I mean, Google Maps doesn’t need to collect all the data it collects, but it sells us the benefit with an imminent long-tail of problems.

bilbo0s 7y ago

>at least we would have a shot at keeping it democratic If by democratic you mean freedom to form outrage mobs then I'd agree, but I don't think that would be a good thing. Having thousands of people in some community screaming for the head of some kid who said something dumb about his school and his dad's rifle on a Call of Duty discord is not going to end well for the kid. I'm not sure I believe in completely open data because entire populations with access to it are not completely rational.

naringas 7y ago
> I'm not sure I believe in completely open data because entire populations with access to it are not completely rational. certainly not. but we are at the beginning of a cultural shift in line with the renaissance and the age of enlightnement which vastly changed the cultural mindset quite a bit. before these previous 'cultural revolutions' what people considered rational was different.
- bilbo0s 7y ago
  I think we agree that we are in the middle of a cultural shift, but I don't think it's going where you think it is. It's exactly this cultural shift that I'm worried about. What exactly does crowdsourced school security look like in an environment of radically open data? I just think you're being very optimistic.
  - naringas 7y ago
    no one can tell where will end up. regardless, I don't think it's optimism because I don't think I will leave long enough to see such a world, at best we will leave through the roughest part of the shift. this level of cultural transformation takes more tha a few of generations. in any case, I see something else regarding the way in which individual humans are aware of the relationship to their supporting society which translates up to the way in which a distinct society sees itself as a component of a larger system. where do you think this is going?
vixen99 7y ago