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It doesn't matter what statistics this professor digs up on the 1950s - the 50s are remembered fondly for the general sense of optimism, confidence, and nationa

by rpiguy 7y ago

It doesn't matter what statistics this professor digs up on the 1950s - the 50s are remembered fondly for the general sense of optimism, confidence, and national pride. Yes it was better for white people, but that doesn't change anything. Suburbia was born, millions of families moved from poverty stricken rural areas, and America felt as though it could do anything. Break the sound barrier, go to space, cure Polio. Liberal professors obsessed with identity politics and historical revisionism just wouldn't get it. China is going through the same kind of boom today. 75% of the country is still quite poor, but seeing the other 25% lifted from forced, agrarian poverty into a comparatively wealthy middle class fuels optimism and national pride. Doesn't matter that the growth leaves out the Muslim poor or most Tibetans, etc. This will be remembered as a golden age for China.

eesmith 7y ago
Noah Smith is a columnist. He was a business school professor, but is not now. "Fondly remembered" means you are deliberately choosing a lens of nostalgia. Also, Korea War and the Cold War's threat of nuclear war. The second Red Scare and the McCarthy trials. Segregation. Red-lining. Sundown towns. Eg, "Suburbia was born" in part due to white flight from the cities, and subsidized by government policies which supported white people over black. Levittown, "widely regarded as the archetype for postwar suburbs throughout the country" (quoting Wikipedia) only sold homes to white families. As a reminder, the Soviets got to space first. At the beginning of the century they were one of the poorest countries in Europe.
- rpiguy 7y ago
  No it is just sour grapes. "It doesn't matter that most people remember it fondly, they shouldn't" gist of the article is ridiculous. Cut me a break. I will repeat it was peak America. Interstates, television (and the cultural cohesion it briefly engendered), post war confidence, manufacturing boom, steel boom, automobile boom, petroleum boom, and a huge swath of people going from having no to little material security to having a path to security. Nostalgia in this case is thoroughly based in the zeitgeist of the time. There is no reason it should not be looked as a great time in American history. Soviets put a satellite up first, but couldn't feed their people and crammed everyone into cinderblock apartments. Racism has existed since the beginning of time, is rampant today, across all cultures and races. Because we were still struggling with civil rights as a nation is no reason to not celebrate our accomplishments. I was the child of a mixed marriage and my parents experienced their share of racism. I grew up in a farm town where no one could say my last name correctly even though it is literally spelled out phonetically. I hate racism, but I am strongly averse to viewing history through the lens of race.
  - eesmith 7y ago
    It was peak America mostly for straight, white, Protestant men. It was not peak America for gay people. Or for blacks. Or for women. Just a few years later, America was worried about having its first Catholic President. But, who wrote the stories, and directed the films, and set the cultural memories about that time? Why weren't the Roaring Twenties peak America? Quoting Wikipedia: > This period saw the large-scale development and use of automobiles, telephones, movies, radio, and electrical appliances being installed in the lives of thousands of Westerners. Aviation soon became a business. Nations saw rapid industrial and economic growth, accelerated consumer demand, and introduced significantly new changes in lifestyle and culture. The media focused on celebrities, especially sports heroes and movie stars, as cities rooted for their home teams and filled the new palatial cinemas and gigantic sports stadiums. In most major democratic states, women won the right to vote. The right to vote made a huge impact on society. Why isn't now peak America?
    - 8456523 7y ago
      >It was peak America mostly for straight, white, Protestant men. >It was not peak America for gay people. Or for blacks. Or for women. It makes me sad how often discussion of any particular social question on this site gets derailed into a discussion of identity politics. In 1950, Americans owned 75% of all the cars in the world. Surely, black Americans owned cars at a lower rate than white Americans did, but they probably owned cars at a higher rate than whites in Sweden, France or the UK did. The point is that there are major influences on prosperity that cannot be reduced to the same old identity-politics tropes.
      - eesmith 7y ago
        So why is car-owning a relevant statistic for "peak American"? Why not, for example, miles of passenger-rail tracks? Can that measure be extended to judge "peak Germany", when in the 1880s Germany had 75% or more of the world's production automobiles? No, clearly not. All of this is a question of how you want to choose your numbers. I'll point out that this isn't a "this site gets derailed into a discussion of identity politics" issue for two reasons: 1) The term "American" is identity politics. Benjamin Franklin is rightly called "the first American" because of his identity politics concerning colonial unity. 2) the opinion piece itself mentions "the pervasive racism and sexism", so further discussion of that topic is on track.

by rpiguy 7y ago

eesmith 7y ago

Noah Smith is a columnist. He was a business school professor, but is not now. "Fondly remembered" means you are deliberately choosing a lens of nostalgia. Also, Korea War and the Cold War's threat of nuclear war. The second Red Scare and the McCarthy trials. Segregation. Red-lining. Sundown towns. Eg, "Suburbia was born" in part due to white flight from the cities, and subsidized by government policies which supported white people over black. Levittown, "widely regarded as the archetype for postwar suburbs throughout the country" (quoting Wikipedia) only sold homes to white families. As a reminder, the Soviets got to space first. At the beginning of the century they were one of the poorest countries in Europe.

rpiguy 7y ago
No it is just sour grapes. "It doesn't matter that most people remember it fondly, they shouldn't" gist of the article is ridiculous. Cut me a break. I will repeat it was peak America. Interstates, television (and the cultural cohesion it briefly engendered), post war confidence, manufacturing boom, steel boom, automobile boom, petroleum boom, and a huge swath of people going from having no to little material security to having a path to security. Nostalgia in this case is thoroughly based in the zeitgeist of the time. There is no reason it should not be looked as a great time in American history. Soviets put a satellite up first, but couldn't feed their people and crammed everyone into cinderblock apartments. Racism has existed since the beginning of time, is rampant today, across all cultures and races. Because we were still struggling with civil rights as a nation is no reason to not celebrate our accomplishments. I was the child of a mixed marriage and my parents experienced their share of racism. I grew up in a farm town where no one could say my last name correctly even though it is literally spelled out phonetically. I hate racism, but I am strongly averse to viewing history through the lens of race.
- eesmith 7y ago
  It was peak America mostly for straight, white, Protestant men. It was not peak America for gay people. Or for blacks. Or for women. Just a few years later, America was worried about having its first Catholic President. But, who wrote the stories, and directed the films, and set the cultural memories about that time? Why weren't the Roaring Twenties peak America? Quoting Wikipedia: > This period saw the large-scale development and use of automobiles, telephones, movies, radio, and electrical appliances being installed in the lives of thousands of Westerners. Aviation soon became a business. Nations saw rapid industrial and economic growth, accelerated consumer demand, and introduced significantly new changes in lifestyle and culture. The media focused on celebrities, especially sports heroes and movie stars, as cities rooted for their home teams and filled the new palatial cinemas and gigantic sports stadiums. In most major democratic states, women won the right to vote. The right to vote made a huge impact on society. Why isn't now peak America?
  - 8456523 7y ago
    >It was peak America mostly for straight, white, Protestant men. >It was not peak America for gay people. Or for blacks. Or for women. It makes me sad how often discussion of any particular social question on this site gets derailed into a discussion of identity politics. In 1950, Americans owned 75% of all the cars in the world. Surely, black Americans owned cars at a lower rate than white Americans did, but they probably owned cars at a higher rate than whites in Sweden, France or the UK did. The point is that there are major influences on prosperity that cannot be reduced to the same old identity-politics tropes.
    - eesmith 7y ago
      So why is car-owning a relevant statistic for "peak American"? Why not, for example, miles of passenger-rail tracks? Can that measure be extended to judge "peak Germany", when in the 1880s Germany had 75% or more of the world's production automobiles? No, clearly not. All of this is a question of how you want to choose your numbers. I'll point out that this isn't a "this site gets derailed into a discussion of identity politics" issue for two reasons: 1) The term "American" is identity politics. Benjamin Franklin is rightly called "the first American" because of his identity politics concerning colonial unity. 2) the opinion piece itself mentions "the pervasive racism and sexism", so further discussion of that topic is on track.