6 ms·

Some advice I've found helpful is to quit Twitter and Reddit, while also unfriending particularly misandrist and racist (yes, anti-white racism is still racism)

by swebs 7y ago

Some advice I've found helpful is to quit Twitter and Reddit, while also unfriending particularly misandrist and racist (yes, anti-white racism is still racism) Facebook friends. I've found myself a lot happier when I cut out people who would constantly try to demonize me for various physical traits. If you have the mass media constantly telling a group of people that they're inherently evil, of course it's going to cause suicides.

thiago_fm 7y ago
As if this is the cause of the life expectancy drop for American men. I think learning how to deal with this type of criticism is a quality one needs to have nowadays. I'm white and I have no problem with twitter or reddit. They are actually great platforms. I think the root of the problem with American men is that inequality in America is increasing. Also the culture and education system needs a reform, a lot of kids are growing in an environment where drug abuse is cool, doctors don't want to hear patients and just prescribe medicine etc. There are a lot of wrong incentives. Hopefully the next president focuses on addressing them.
- BlueGh0st 7y ago
  >They are actually great platforms. With incredibly toxic userbases.
  - eej2ya1K 7y ago
    What does "toxic" mean?
    - ohlookabird 7y ago
      Maybe you haven't heard that word in this context before, it's of course not meant to be read literally. I understand it the same way as I would read "toxic workplace culture" or "toxic social environment", which is that there are people who bully, abuse power, take advantage of you, deliberately misunderstand you, are racist, sexist, etc.
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
    - krapp 7y ago
      >What does "toxic" mean? Toxic -- adjective (ˈtäk-sik) 1) containing or being poisonous material especially when capable of causing death or serious debilitation 2) exhibiting symptoms of infection or toxicosis 3) extremely harsh, malicious, or harmful 4) relating to or being an asset that has lost so much value that it cannot be sold on the market In the context of this specific discussion, for the sake of disambiguation, the third definition listed above is the one being used. Here are some articles which may help to further clarify the concept of "toxic" as it applies to people, social interactions and online communities: https://psychcentral.com/blog/whats-a-toxic-person-how-do-you-deal-with-one/ https://psychcentral.com/blog/whats-a-toxic-person-how-do-yo... https://www.healthscopemag.com/health-scope/toxic-relationships/ https://www.healthscopemag.com/health-scope/toxic-relationsh... https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/02/26/racism-misogyny-death-threats-why-cant-booming-video-game-industry-curb-toxicity/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/02/26/racism-... https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/07/18/americans-say-the-nations-political-debate-has-grown-more-toxic-and-heated-rhetoric-could-lead-to-violence/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/07/18/americans-s... https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/22/us/toxic-masculinity.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/22/us/toxic-masculinity.html
  - thiago_fm 7y ago
    I have no problem there, people are very friendly on every reddit sub I enjoy visiting. The same is for twitter. What those platforms have in common is choice. If you are toxic and think it is fine to openly argue and make socially awkward comments the whole time, then you will view it that way. You will likely also get attracted by subs and communities that this happens.
    - dsfyu404ed 7y ago
      >I have no problem there, people are very friendly on every reddit sub I enjoy visiting. The same is for twitter. The only way to have a good time on those platforms and to a lesser (but increasing, in my unscientific observation) degree, HN is to only express opinions that toe the party line (party line being relative to whatever the mainstream opinion is on the platform or subset of it in question). Those platforms have features designed to amplify consensus and quash dissent.
      - tomp 7y ago
        or not care about downvotes
        AlexTWithBeard 7y ago
        But why would you post if you don't care about people's reaction to your message?
        humanrebar 7y ago
        You can care about how some people react without overvaluing the aggregate reaction.
      - AlexTWithBeard 7y ago
        It's good you mentioned HN. I also find it to be an extremely reasonable forum. Radical opinions pop up every once in a while, but somehow they still manage to cause little outrage and hatred. Kudos to the team (and all of us too!)
  - RegBarclay 7y ago
    Agreed that there is a lot of toxicity. But I think there's value in learning to participate without being dragged down by griefers and trolls.
    - JumpCrisscross 7y ago
      > there's value in learning to participate without being dragged down by griefers and trolls There's also value in knowing when to detach. For most people, these platforms are value subtracting.
    - LanceH 7y ago
      It is generally not possible to participate on the reddit while presenting an alternate viewpoint. You go to your own echo chamber or you get downvoted into oblivion.
- eej2ya1K 7y ago
  This sounds like a caricature. I haven't been to the US in years, but I don't believe it's this bad.
  - saturdaysaint 7y ago
    In a country this big, there are massive areas just a little bit off of the beaten path where millions of people live where the suffering these numbers speak to is largely taking place - areas where people have few employment or higher education options, stricken by drug epidemics (since producing/moving/usings drugs is glamorous in dismally poor regions), where public schools are abysmally bad, where they have to drive 20 miles for a grocery store that sells produce. I live here and travel frequently and it's very hard for even me to be in touch with the areas that are suffering. There are huge swaths of Metro Detroit that range from pleasantly functional to fabulously wealthy - a normal person would have to take a weird detour to be exposed to the dysfunctional/left behind part of America. I recently drove through Ohio to visit an amazing state park and the story was much the same. Reputable journalists write about massive unemployment and drug abuse in many regions there, but all I saw was well-maintained infrastructure, cute urban areas and a beautiful park.
- LegitShady 7y ago
  >I think learning how to deal with this type of criticism is a quality one needs to have nowadays Being "criticised" for being either white or male isn't criticism, its either sexism or racism and neither are acceptable Your follow up about inequality is unrelated, and your "solution" is to allow to to continue because reddit and twitter are "great platforms". Its like you haven't even read your own writing.
- everdrive 7y ago
  >I'm [ethic group] and I [love social media].
Miner49er 7y ago
I find it hard to believe that white men are dying because people are pointing out that racism exists on social media.
- eej2ya1K 7y ago
  Don't be disingenous, people are doing a lot more than "pointing out that racism exists" and you fucking know it.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - ohlookabird 7y ago
    Like what?
    - concordDance 7y ago
      Well if one googles one can find all sorts of crazy essays... I suspect the impressions you get about how "anti-white" people are (as opposed to "anti-racism") will depend hugely on your filter bubble.
      - ohlookabird 7y ago
        Sure, if one googles one can find all sorts of crazy essays, conspiracy theories and a lot of trash. So far it seemed to me that on Twitter and Reddit mainly racists complain about "anti-white" sentiments after being called out on their racism or if a story is only about non-white people taking action to highlight problems in their environments (e.g. BLM demonstrations), which I haven't seen blaming white people in general either. I am white, live in the US and I have never had the feeling of something being truly ant-white. I am sure there a filter bubbles, but so far I have never encountered an honest text about this anti-white perception (but also didn't look for it). Anything you can point to?
        7y ago
patentatt 7y ago
Hey, I’ve got a suggestion, why don’t you cut out HN too? Give it a try.
gerbilly 7y ago
In a country that doesn't have universal healthcare you blame twitter for reducing the lifespan of the poor?
- AlexTWithBeard 7y ago
  What's about a country that does have a universal healthcare for poor? Oh, wait...
- swebs 7y ago
  1. If lack of healthcare were the cause, wouldn't life expectancy also drop equally for all other demographics who are just as poor? 2. The article specifically mentioned the uptick is caused by suicide and drug overdose 3. America does have a healthcare system for the poor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicaid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicaid
  - gerbilly 7y ago
    And is drug rehab a funded by the healthcare system for the poor in the US?
    - swebs 7y ago
      A quick google search confirms that it is. https://www.addictioncenter.com/rehab-questions/medicaid-and-medicare/ https://www.addictioncenter.com/rehab-questions/medicaid-and...
    - AlexTWithBeard 7y ago
      Yes, why? https://www.addicted.org/medicaid-drug-rehab-centers.html https://www.addicted.org/medicaid-drug-rehab-centers.html
      - gerbilly 7y ago
        Well great then. My hunch didn't pan out.
- 7y ago
GrayTextIsTruth 7y ago
Quitting reddit over a year ago was good for my mental health. I noticed that I found myself being very submissive and changing my behavior and opinions so that some anonymous mob wouldn’t dogpile on me. I think the same thing is happening in society where men are expected to behave a certain way or be shamed.
CalRobert 7y ago
The article discusses problems for white men without a college education, including drug overdose and suicide. Drug overdoses in young men will have a strong effect since you're losing a far longer stretch of life from the averages (an OD'ing 25 year old affects the stats more than an OD'ing 70 year old). If you have some resources indicating this misandry and racism is behind drug use and suicide, can you share it? I'm not even saying that for some people it's upsetting to see this POV (the same that I imagine some boomers are tired of being told they created a lot of today's crises), but it seems like a pretty simplistic view and, if at all, only ver tangentially related.
- swebs 7y ago
  Here's a study that shows social isolation is a contributing risk factor for mortality. https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1745691614568352 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/174569161456835...
SuoDuanDao 7y ago
I did that during the Kavanaugh circus. definitely feel much better as a result. Despite enjoying it a lot more now, my overall engagement in social media is down as well. Probably cofactors in how much better I feel.
minikites 7y ago
>If you have the mass media constantly telling a group of people that they're inherently evil, of course it's going to cause suicides. So there's maybe 20-30 years of "anti-white racism", how many years did we have "regular racism"?
- harimau777 7y ago
  How is that relevant? 20 to 30 years is almost my entire life

by swebs 7y ago

thiago_fm 7y ago

As if this is the cause of the life expectancy drop for American men. I think learning how to deal with this type of criticism is a quality one needs to have nowadays. I'm white and I have no problem with twitter or reddit. They are actually great platforms. I think the root of the problem with American men is that inequality in America is increasing. Also the culture and education system needs a reform, a lot of kids are growing in an environment where drug abuse is cool, doctors don't want to hear patients and just prescribe medicine etc. There are a lot of wrong incentives. Hopefully the next president focuses on addressing them.

BlueGh0st 7y ago
>They are actually great platforms. With incredibly toxic userbases.
- eej2ya1K 7y ago
  What does "toxic" mean?
  - ohlookabird 7y ago
    Maybe you haven't heard that word in this context before, it's of course not meant to be read literally. I understand it the same way as I would read "toxic workplace culture" or "toxic social environment", which is that there are people who bully, abuse power, take advantage of you, deliberately misunderstand you, are racist, sexist, etc.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
  - krapp 7y ago
    >What does "toxic" mean? Toxic -- adjective (ˈtäk-sik) 1) containing or being poisonous material especially when capable of causing death or serious debilitation 2) exhibiting symptoms of infection or toxicosis 3) extremely harsh, malicious, or harmful 4) relating to or being an asset that has lost so much value that it cannot be sold on the market In the context of this specific discussion, for the sake of disambiguation, the third definition listed above is the one being used. Here are some articles which may help to further clarify the concept of "toxic" as it applies to people, social interactions and online communities: https://psychcentral.com/blog/whats-a-toxic-person-how-do-you-deal-with-one/ https://psychcentral.com/blog/whats-a-toxic-person-how-do-yo... https://www.healthscopemag.com/health-scope/toxic-relationships/ https://www.healthscopemag.com/health-scope/toxic-relationsh... https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/02/26/racism-misogyny-death-threats-why-cant-booming-video-game-industry-curb-toxicity/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/02/26/racism-... https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/07/18/americans-say-the-nations-political-debate-has-grown-more-toxic-and-heated-rhetoric-could-lead-to-violence/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/07/18/americans-s... https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/22/us/toxic-masculinity.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/22/us/toxic-masculinity.html
- thiago_fm 7y ago
  I have no problem there, people are very friendly on every reddit sub I enjoy visiting. The same is for twitter. What those platforms have in common is choice. If you are toxic and think it is fine to openly argue and make socially awkward comments the whole time, then you will view it that way. You will likely also get attracted by subs and communities that this happens.
  - dsfyu404ed 7y ago
    >I have no problem there, people are very friendly on every reddit sub I enjoy visiting. The same is for twitter. The only way to have a good time on those platforms and to a lesser (but increasing, in my unscientific observation) degree, HN is to only express opinions that toe the party line (party line being relative to whatever the mainstream opinion is on the platform or subset of it in question). Those platforms have features designed to amplify consensus and quash dissent.
    - tomp 7y ago
      or not care about downvotes
      - AlexTWithBeard 7y ago
        But why would you post if you don't care about people's reaction to your message?
        humanrebar 7y ago
        You can care about how some people react without overvaluing the aggregate reaction.
    - AlexTWithBeard 7y ago
      It's good you mentioned HN. I also find it to be an extremely reasonable forum. Radical opinions pop up every once in a while, but somehow they still manage to cause little outrage and hatred. Kudos to the team (and all of us too!)
- RegBarclay 7y ago
  Agreed that there is a lot of toxicity. But I think there's value in learning to participate without being dragged down by griefers and trolls.
  - JumpCrisscross 7y ago
    > there's value in learning to participate without being dragged down by griefers and trolls There's also value in knowing when to detach. For most people, these platforms are value subtracting.
  - LanceH 7y ago
    It is generally not possible to participate on the reddit while presenting an alternate viewpoint. You go to your own echo chamber or you get downvoted into oblivion.
eej2ya1K 7y ago
This sounds like a caricature. I haven't been to the US in years, but I don't believe it's this bad.
- saturdaysaint 7y ago
  In a country this big, there are massive areas just a little bit off of the beaten path where millions of people live where the suffering these numbers speak to is largely taking place - areas where people have few employment or higher education options, stricken by drug epidemics (since producing/moving/usings drugs is glamorous in dismally poor regions), where public schools are abysmally bad, where they have to drive 20 miles for a grocery store that sells produce. I live here and travel frequently and it's very hard for even me to be in touch with the areas that are suffering. There are huge swaths of Metro Detroit that range from pleasantly functional to fabulously wealthy - a normal person would have to take a weird detour to be exposed to the dysfunctional/left behind part of America. I recently drove through Ohio to visit an amazing state park and the story was much the same. Reputable journalists write about massive unemployment and drug abuse in many regions there, but all I saw was well-maintained infrastructure, cute urban areas and a beautiful park.
LegitShady 7y ago
>I think learning how to deal with this type of criticism is a quality one needs to have nowadays Being "criticised" for being either white or male isn't criticism, its either sexism or racism and neither are acceptable Your follow up about inequality is unrelated, and your "solution" is to allow to to continue because reddit and twitter are "great platforms". Its like you haven't even read your own writing.
everdrive 7y ago
>I'm [ethic group] and I [love social media].

Miner49er 7y ago

I find it hard to believe that white men are dying because people are pointing out that racism exists on social media.

eej2ya1K 7y ago
Don't be disingenous, people are doing a lot more than "pointing out that racism exists" and you fucking know it.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- ohlookabird 7y ago
  Like what?
  - concordDance 7y ago
    Well if one googles one can find all sorts of crazy essays... I suspect the impressions you get about how "anti-white" people are (as opposed to "anti-racism") will depend hugely on your filter bubble.
    - ohlookabird 7y ago
      Sure, if one googles one can find all sorts of crazy essays, conspiracy theories and a lot of trash. So far it seemed to me that on Twitter and Reddit mainly racists complain about "anti-white" sentiments after being called out on their racism or if a story is only about non-white people taking action to highlight problems in their environments (e.g. BLM demonstrations), which I haven't seen blaming white people in general either. I am white, live in the US and I have never had the feeling of something being truly ant-white. I am sure there a filter bubbles, but so far I have never encountered an honest text about this anti-white perception (but also didn't look for it). Anything you can point to?
      - 7y ago

patentatt 7y ago

Hey, I’ve got a suggestion, why don’t you cut out HN too? Give it a try.

gerbilly 7y ago

In a country that doesn't have universal healthcare you blame twitter for reducing the lifespan of the poor?

AlexTWithBeard 7y ago
What's about a country that does have a universal healthcare for poor? Oh, wait...
swebs 7y ago
1. If lack of healthcare were the cause, wouldn't life expectancy also drop equally for all other demographics who are just as poor? 2. The article specifically mentioned the uptick is caused by suicide and drug overdose 3. America does have a healthcare system for the poor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicaid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicaid
- gerbilly 7y ago
  And is drug rehab a funded by the healthcare system for the poor in the US?
  - swebs 7y ago
    A quick google search confirms that it is. https://www.addictioncenter.com/rehab-questions/medicaid-and-medicare/ https://www.addictioncenter.com/rehab-questions/medicaid-and...
  - AlexTWithBeard 7y ago
    Yes, why? https://www.addicted.org/medicaid-drug-rehab-centers.html https://www.addicted.org/medicaid-drug-rehab-centers.html
    - gerbilly 7y ago
      Well great then. My hunch didn't pan out.
7y ago

GrayTextIsTruth 7y ago

Quitting reddit over a year ago was good for my mental health. I noticed that I found myself being very submissive and changing my behavior and opinions so that some anonymous mob wouldn’t dogpile on me. I think the same thing is happening in society where men are expected to behave a certain way or be shamed.

CalRobert 7y ago

The article discusses problems for white men without a college education, including drug overdose and suicide. Drug overdoses in young men will have a strong effect since you're losing a far longer stretch of life from the averages (an OD'ing 25 year old affects the stats more than an OD'ing 70 year old). If you have some resources indicating this misandry and racism is behind drug use and suicide, can you share it? I'm not even saying that for some people it's upsetting to see this POV (the same that I imagine some boomers are tired of being told they created a lot of today's crises), but it seems like a pretty simplistic view and, if at all, only ver tangentially related.

swebs 7y ago
Here's a study that shows social isolation is a contributing risk factor for mortality. https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1745691614568352 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/174569161456835...

SuoDuanDao 7y ago

I did that during the Kavanaugh circus. definitely feel much better as a result. Despite enjoying it a lot more now, my overall engagement in social media is down as well. Probably cofactors in how much better I feel.

minikites 7y ago

>If you have the mass media constantly telling a group of people that they're inherently evil, of course it's going to cause suicides. So there's maybe 20-30 years of "anti-white racism", how many years did we have "regular racism"?

harimau777 7y ago
How is that relevant? 20 to 30 years is almost my entire life